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Belief in God, miracles & heaven declines as Darwin's theory of evolution rises

coredeac said:
No, but I've learned that there is a litmus test of only two questions that should be applied to over 5 billion people on the planet. I guess that's considered viewing the world with an open mind.
Dunno.
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I rather view the world through two questions than through a Christian ideology.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Thank goodness. A big step towards continuing our own social evolution.

I have two litmus tests for people: are you anti-gay rights and do you believe in evolution?
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Not anti-gay and see absolutely no reason why trying to shatter people's belief in religion has any net positive measurable benefit to the atheist community. The good done by churches in the US, in communities, charity, etc is underestimated by atheists and the crusade against creationists based on claims of far reaching racism, bigotry, etc are very overblown in my opinion. Go ahead and crush people's hope and faith.. don't see much positive coming from it for our country, or any others, and I doubt atheists see more positives (true benefit) disproving God other than the pleasure from seeing people suffer, get upset, and argue. Go ahead and pull the news articles of radical creationists doing bad things.. It won't change the truth.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
And why would it be a stupid approach to just discount people who don't believe in evolution? It's a pretty basic litmus test for reasonable minds is it not? I'll defend the right of people to say whatever they want, but it's astounding to me how narrow-minded people can be that they don't accept a basic tenet of the world that we live in because a book written by men 2000 years ago says that it's not how the world started.
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Maybe I misunderstood your definition of "litmus test," as I took it in much the same sense BSF did, as a measure of one's character. Regardless, no, I would not "discount people"--or what they say, as I'm again not sure of the meaning of "discount" as you use it here--based on their belief, or lack thereof, in evolution. I'm not going to stop going to my mechanic, or disregard his advice concerning my car, if it turns out he doesn't believe in evolution. Same goes for my plumber, roofer, or dozens of other people I deal with on a semi-regular basis. If the purpose of the test is simply to sort people into "Intelligent" or "Unintelligent" buckets, I again think it's far too simplistic to achieve that purpose, not to mention that it serves no purpose other than to demean others and aggrandize yourself.

Neither is it an effective test for "reasonable minds." That completely ignores the fact that billions of people in this world weren't born with your intelligence; didn't have a (presumably) supportive family structure that emphasized and stressed education; didn't have the opportunity to attend high school, much less college and law school; and haven't been exposed to a tenth of the scientific theories and knowledge that you have. People are incredibly complex composites of their genetics, experiences, and upbringing, and I don't believe that a litmus test ever can provide you with an accurate, or even useful, picture of an individual human being.

Again, maybe I'm simply misunderstanding.
 
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Ok I'll weigh in now. To address york's question haha, I don't think any religion threads have changed anyone's minds, but I do think we've had a few good pages in the past 10 years or so on here and Scout. I enjoy reading posts by IAmThunderbolt and RevDeac greatly. And I'll go so far as to say they've helped me with my vitriol against organized religion, so maybe I'm someone whose mind has changed and softened a bit over the years.

The point I want to raise here isn't really about God or organized religion, it's about science. I was fortunate enough to have two brilliant people in my life who were both devoutly religious and scientists. One of those posts on this board; he was my AP Biology professor, and he was probably the first person to teach me about genetics in depth. The other is my dad, who raised me Roman Catholic, and who has been a genetics professor for 20 years. If the two of them have enough intellectual room for both "belief systems," then I'm at least willing to keep an open mind.

What irks me about this study is not that so many people believe in God while I do not. It is that so few people believe in evolution while I do. As much as I think choosing a religion or lack thereof is your prerogative, I have to take a dogmatic approach to the tenets of evolution. I've seen it before my very eyes in petri dishes. And as a building block of the basic science of biology, I think it's a sad commentary on STM education in America that less than half of our population believes in it. Enough of my soapbox, I have a question.

I wonder how long people stuck around the Copernican system when Galileo first proposed the heliocentric model? What will need to change in the presentation of empirical fact in order for the tide to fully change in the US?
 
I've seen the phrase "believe in evolution" more than once on this thread. Why do we need to believe in evolution when it is supposed fact?

Also, if you are ever brought into an ER in writhing pain, near death's door, do you plan to yell "Oh, Darwin, Oh Darwin" or "Oh God, Oh God"? And, as a statement of fact, there's always LOTS of yelling.

For the record, I've never heard "Oh, Darwin". But, there's always a first time. :)
 
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coredeac said:
I've seen the phrase "believe in evolution" more than once on this thread. Why do we need to believe in evolution when it is supposed fact?
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It is still a theory. One I believe in strongly after seeing the evidence.
 
I certainly don't think there has to be an either-or scenario when it comes to God and evolution. I strongly feel that religious revelations, and thus texts, would not only be filtered by the people explaining them, but the message itself would have to be targeted according to the level of understanding of the recipient. How could you even begin to explain evolution or the solar system or microbes, etc. to people living thousands of years ago? And even if God in His omnipotence could give a single person an unfiltered view of the truth without turning him into a gibbering idiot, how then could that person explain it to others? The message was simpler in simpler times. Now, we don't need prophets, because we have scientists to tell us how the Universe works, and more people can understand the complexities involved. Scientific breakthroughs are often sparked by inspiration. Who's to say that inspiration isn't divine in nature?

To get back on point, though, yes... it is ridiculous that more people don't believe in evolution. Not shocking at this point, unfortunately, but still ridiculous.
 
TownieDeac said:
It is still a theory. One I believe in strongly after seeing the evidence.
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Then, just go all in. Why do you need to sort this out on a message board? Reject God and go all in. It's pretty simple.
We all know how we were created through Darwin and our purpose on this earth from his teachings. Go for it. Don't need to convince us!

Hey, and do let me know your future battle cry in ER. I'll go with "shit, shit, shit" since God apparently doesn't exist. And, "shit, shit, shit" always commands immediate respect.
 
TownieDeac said:
It is still a theory. One I believe in strongly after seeing the evidence.
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If it's a theory, why should we expect everyone to believe it? If it hasn't been proven, then it's just as factual as the existence of God.

There are literally billions of people who have felt the hand of God move in their lives. Some of you choose to believe that all of these people are delusional in some way. I think that the independent reports of people who you know to be intelligent should carry some weight in your evaluation. Instead, numbers, you choose to claim intellectual superiority.

It's your choice, but it's hard for me to understand how you can place so much weight in a theory yet be completely blind to the lack of logical foundation in your own position.
 
DeacDiggler said:
If it's a theory, why should we expect everyone to believe it? If it hasn't been proven, then it's just as factual as the existence of God.

There are literally billions of people who have felt the hand of God move in their lives. Some of you choose to believe that all of these people are delusional in some way. I think that the independent reports of people who you know to be intelligent should carry some weight in your evaluation. Instead, numbers, you choose to claim intellectual superiority.

It's your choice, but it's hard for me to understand how you can place so much weight in a theory yet be completely blind to the lack of logical foundation in your own position.
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You realize that gravity and the science(relativity) that make your gps work are theories as well, right?

Evolution is literally the most tested theory in history.
 
I just don't get equating a tested theory with something that has never been recorded(the hand of God) or verified.
 
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