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Bob Franken says Obama White House is the "most hostile" in history to free press

BobStackFan4Life said:
This sort of knee jerk "rally around Obama", for doing the kind of shit that made people furious with Bush, I just don't get it. It reeks of hypocrisy.
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Same with giving Bush a pass, but giving Obama shit for it.

If the practice is wrong, which it is, then it's wrong, regardless of who.

All I was saying. You haven't and won't see me "rally around Obama." I'm definitely a jilted lover of 2008 candidate Obama.

I also think bdz is adding a level of nuance that needs to be considered here.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
This sort of knee jerk "rally around Obama", for doing the kind of shit that made people furious with Bush, I just don't get it. It reeks of hypocrisy.
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So in your world, if you aren't aligned with the extreme RW or LW in saying Obama is terrible, you are "rallying around him".
 
TownieDeac said:
Same with giving Bush a pass, but giving Obama shit for it.

If the practice is wrong, which it is, then it's wrong, regardless of who.

All I was saying. You haven't and won't see me "rally around Obama." I'm definitely a jilted lover of 2008 candidate Obama.

I also think bdz is adding a level of nuance that needs to be considered here.
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It's also like the concept that the Germans, Brits, Indians, Chinese, Israelis, Russiams, et al, haven't been, aren't currently and won't continue to intercept every other country's data and intelligence.

If you don't think this happening 24/7/365 in every technologically capable country, then you must believe that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster have a poker game every week at the Jetsons.
 
RJKarl said:
So in your world, if you aren't aligned with the extreme LW or RW in saying Bush is terrible, you are "rallying around him".
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Let's turn that one around for someone like yourself who thought Bush was terrible... Need I point to polling numbers to demostrate that, like Bush, it's not an extreme view to think Obama is doing a terrible job?

Hilarious to see BSF referred to as extreme. Seems like a pretty damn middle of the road libertarian type to me. Noted, blindly partisan types like yourself seem to like to project your own extremism onto others for some reason.
 
RJKarl said:
So in your world, if you aren't aligned with the extreme RW or LW in saying Obama is terrible, you are "rallying around him".
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So in your world you just make stuff up and believe it. #DelusionalFuckwit
 
TownieDeac said:
Doesn't mean we have to like it.
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But it the way it has been for centuries. The only difference is the technology.

To not do this would be totally irresponsible as well as against our national interest and national security.

We don't live in a perfect world, with universal peace and no need to protect ourselves. t would be nice if we did, but we don't.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
So in your world you just make stuff up and believe it. #DelusionalFuckwit
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You start out with wanting to believe the worst immediately. When ONW or I or others say, it's not logical, you start name calling and saying we are "rallying around" Obama.
 
RJKarl said:
It's also like the concept that the Germans, Brits, Indians, Chinese, Israelis, Russiams, et al, haven't been, aren't currently and won't continue to intercept every other country's data and intelligence.
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You're all over the block with this response but none of those countries, except our 5 Eyes partner Great Britain, have anywhere near the capabilities we do when it comes to surveillance. Not even the Chinese. Of course other countries spy- no one denies that. But no other country has the means to destroy the privacy of the people on this planet like we do.

RJKarl said:
If you don't think this happening 24/7/365 in every technologically capable country, then you must believe that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster have a poker game every week at the Jetsons.
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What do you mean by "this"? Surveillance? Of course it's happening. But nowhere near on the scale that we're doing it to the world's population.
 
RJKarl said:
But it the way it has been for centuries. The only difference is the technology.

To not do this would be totally irresponsible as well as against our national interest and national security.

We don't live in a perfect world, with universal peace and no need to protect ourselves. It would be nice if we did, but we don't.
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Sincerely, George Bush and Richard Cheney, 2001-2009.
 
RJKarl said:
You start out with wanting to believe the worst immediately. When ONW or I or others say, it's not logical, you start name calling and saying we are "rallying around" Obama.
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That's rich coming from you. But you never make it personal do you rj?
 
RJKarl said:
You start out with wanting to believe the worst immediately. When ONW or I or others say, it's not logical, you start name calling and saying we are "rallying around" Obama.
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Sincerely, R. J. Karl, 2001-2009
 
RJKarl said:
We don't live in a perfect world, with universal peace and no need to protect ourselves. t would be nice if we did, but we don't.
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So, you were obviously a HUGE supporter of the Patriot Act during the Bush years, right? :bowrofl:
 
RJKarl said:
But it the way it has been for centuries. The only difference is the technology.

To not do this would be totally irresponsible as well as against our national interest and national security.

We don't live in a perfect world, with universal peace and no need to protect ourselves. t would be nice if we did, but we don't.
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Since you support trampling on the Constitution and throwing the 1st and 4th Amendments out the window, presumably to make us safer, why not just put a camera in everyone's home that broadcasts back to DHS? That would surely make us all safer wouldn't it?
 
bigdoublezero said:
The news cycle is not even remotely similar to the way it was in the Reagan era. It's night and day. The Internet has changed everything, and if you don't start with a basic understanding of the way information works in 2013, it's not worth a discussion.

You're right that Obama doesn't look good when he campaigns on openness and runs the White House a different way in many respects.
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The news cycle has been 24/7 since the mid-1980's, although you are certainly righ about the advent of the internet and social media. The Challenger blew up on live TV. We all watched the US invade Iraq live during the first Gulf War. Clarence Thomas was grilled for the Coke can incident on live TV. Ollie North was a day-time TV fixture when he testified on Iran Contra. And everyone remembers OJ driving up the highway in the White Suburban as well as "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." All of that happened prior to the advent of the internet as a major force. And we can come up with plenty more examples. So while we have way more outlets for media and news these days and bloggers galore, that doesn't change the fact it has been a 24/7 news cycle for a long time.

Further, many of Obama's acts are directed against the mainstream media - the ones who now have LESS influence than they had when Tricky Dick, Ford, Carter and Reagan were in power. That would suggest less not more of a need to tap into records from AP, CBSNews, FoxNews, etc. Although you seem to acknowledge much of what Obama is doing is slimey.

One item of note, I'd hazard that Obama has held fewer press conferences than any President since Reagan. I bet it isn't even close. And Reagan almost never saw a reason to have a press conference. He hated them. I'd be confident Obama's record is better than his just because Reagan didn't deal with them on their terms really ever, but worse than everyone since.
 
bigdoublezero said:
The way information spreads in 2013 is way different than the way it spread a decade ago, let alone 20, 30, 40 years ago. The Obama administration is trying to control the message (like every administration before it), and in the modern era that means more extreme measures. This isn't an Obama thing, per se. It's a modern world thing. Again, not condoning the particular complaints against him, just trying to put it in context.
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True but the thing is his administration inherited the most fawning press ever. I mean, if there was ever a person to reverse the trend toward controlling info and increasing transparency, he would be the guy to do it and not just pay it lip service. Instead, he is damn near paranoid about controlling the image.


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Tapatalk.
 
DeacMan said:
The news cycle has been 24/7 since the mid-1980's, although you are certainly righ about the advent of the internet and social media. The Challenger blew up on live TV. We all watched the US invade Iraq live during the first Gulf War. Clarence Thomas was grilled for the Coke can incident on live TV. Ollie North was a day-time TV fixture when he testified on Iran Contra. And everyone remembers OJ driving up the highway in the White Suburban as well as "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." All of that happened prior to the advent of the internet as a major force. And we can come up with plenty more examples. So while we have way more outlets for media and news these days and bloggers galore, that doesn't change the fact it has been a 24/7 news cycle for a long time.
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Uh, the existence of cable news in the '80s and '90s isn't a good example for how things work now in regards to the spread of information. Just because the term "24-hour news cycle" has been around since the '80s doesn't mean things have been the same ever since. They're not.

Again, controlling the message now versus controlling it in the 1980s is a matter of night and day. It's been a complete revolution in the management and spread of information. The number of holes to plug in the Obama White House versus Reagan? It's not even comparable; it's about the technology.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
True but the thing is his administration inherited the most fawning press ever. I mean, if there was ever a person to reverse the trend toward controlling info and increasing transparency, he would be the guy to do it and not just pay it lip service. Instead, he is damn near paranoid about controlling the image.
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It's mostly a function of the times. It's going to be like this for the foreseeable future with all U.S. administrations. Get used to it.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
Since you support trampling on the Constitution and throwing the 1st and 4th Amendments out the window, presumably to make us safer, why not just put a camera in everyone's home that broadcasts back to DHS? That would surely make us all safer wouldn't it?
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You are totally out of control.

I have never said that. I'm not as extreme as you about it in the US.

As I've said dozens of times, there needs to be fixes. I've been saying this for almost a decade and still do. I'm just not as extreme as you are.
 
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