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Casino accuses Phil Ivey of cheating, sues him for $9.6M

MagicDeac

MagicDeac

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"An Atlantic City casino is suing a big-time gambler, claiming he won $9.6 million in a card-cheating scheme in baccarat. The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa filed a federal lawsuit Tuesday against Phillip Ivey Jr., considered one of the best poker players in the world. The lawsuit alleges Ivey and an associate exploited a defect in cards made by a Kansas City manufacturer that enabled them to sort and arrange good cards in baccarat. The technique gave him an unfair advantage on four occasions between April and October 2012, the casino asserted in its lawsuit."
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101578487

I'm interested to see how this turns out. I don't think he did anything wrong--unless the dealer was in on the scheme.
 
magic defends card cheater
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
Almost identical to what he did in a London casino in 2012. http://www.pokerupdate.com/news/tou...ey-admits-to-edge-sorting-in-punto-banco-win/

Incredible that he was able to notice the a defect twice and both times convinced the dealers to arrange the cards in a way to exploit the defect. I'm not familiar with "edge sorting" so have no idea if he's actually allowed to do that.
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my guess would be no... at least as far as involving a dealer is concerned. but regardless, it's kinda on the the card manufacturer to not make distinguishable cards, i would think. it's not ivey's fault he knows the back pattern for an 8... it's just his fault if/when he exploits that.
 
Well clearly he wouldn't be at fault for anything if he just noticed the defect and took advantage. Is he really at fault that he asked a casino employee to deal in a certain way and they complied? Shouldn't the onus be on the casino to not have defective cards or dealers who don't do their job properly?
 
lbE08 said:
my guess would be no... at least as far as involving a dealer is concerned. but regardless, it's kinda on the the card manufacturer to not make distinguishable cards, i would think. it's not ivey's fault he knows the back pattern for an 8... it's just his fault if/when he exploits that.
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Its not that he knew the back of a pattern for any particular card, he knew the back pattern was asymmetrical for all the cards, and he got the dealers to turn around certain cards so that when they showed up in the shoe, he could spot it. Alot of people think he should be able to keep it. The "edge" he had was apparently exactly the same "edge" that the casino has over you and me in everything we do.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
Well clearly he wouldn't be at fault for anything if he just noticed the defect and took advantage. Is he really at fault that he asked a casino employee to deal in a certain way and they complied? Shouldn't the onus be on the casino to not have defective cards or dealers who don't do their job properly?
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i mean, yeah. i don't disagree. i don't know the actual rules, just thinking out loud.

palmab03 said:
Its not that he knew the back of a pattern for any particular card, he knew the back pattern was asymmetrical for all the cards, and he got the dealers to turn around certain cards so that when they showed up in the shoe, he could spot it. Alot of people think he should be able to keep it. The "edge" he had was apparently exactly the same "edge" that the casino has over you and me in everything we do.
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how was his advantage the same as the house advantage?
 
I don't think he did anything wrong at all. He beat the casino at their own game. Tough shit.
 
Not like the casino doesn't have an unfair advantage over everyone who steps inside. Go Phil!
 
He asked for the cards to be sorted that way and the casino agreed. He asked for the cards to be shuffled by an automatic machine so that the orientation of the cards would remain the same. The casino agreed to that as well.

The casino needs to pay that man his money.
 
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I think it should be against the law for casinos to ban players for card counting.
 
lbE08 said:
how was his advantage the same as the house advantage?
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I'm saying if you or I played the game he was playing, the casino would be like a 56% favorite over us. Ivey was a 56% favorite after taking advantage of the cards.
 
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MagicDeac said:
"An Atlantic City casino is suing a big-time gambler, claiming he won $9.6 million in a card-cheating scheme in baccarat. The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa filed a federal lawsuit Tuesday against Phillip Ivey Jr., considered one of the best poker players in the world. The lawsuit alleges Ivey and an associate exploited a defect in cards made by a Kansas City manufacturer that enabled them to sort and arrange good cards in baccarat. The technique gave him an unfair advantage on four occasions between April and October 2012, the casino asserted in its lawsuit."
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101578487
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I wonder what they were thinking the first time Ivey fleeced them in April and why they didn't spot it then. No matter how they did it, it seems crazy that the casino let a famous person win $9.6M total over four visits without figuring out how.
 
PhDeac said:
I wonder what they were thinking the first time Ivey fleeced them in April and why they didn't spot it then. No matter how they did it, it seems crazy that the casino let a famous person win $9.6M total over four visits without figuring out how.
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He bets so big and is so well known, him going on a big run isn't immediate cause for suspicion. He's basically known as the biggest gambler in the world.
 
palmab03 said:
He bets so big and is so well known, him going on a big run isn't immediate cause for suspicion. He's basically known as the biggest gambler in the world.
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You ever run into him during your playing days?
 
palmab03 said:
He bets so big and is so well known, him going on a big run isn't immediate cause for suspicion. He's basically known as the biggest gambler in the world.
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also, i'm sure guys like ivey make a living finding these sorts of loopholes without anyone ever figuring it out
 
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