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Chat thread 1331: Just talkin’ chickens. This is better.

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JuiceCrewAllStar said:
my current PhD buddy who I have the most insight on his path is in the hard sciences -- cancer research -- and he's been aiming for the private sector the whole time

but that is obviously much more available in the hard sciences than the social sciences
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I'm in a biomedical science PhD program and maybe 20% of my class wants to go into academia, everybody else wants to go into industry. It's a pretty different world than PhD in social science programs
 
I mean sure it's different, but Ph's anecdote about terminal Phd's still applies to my field too. Every mentor I know still pushes their students to go into academia, even though they know that there are options for very successful careers outside of that traditional career path
 
deacon14 said:
I mean sure it's different, but Ph's anecdote about terminal Phd's still applies to my field too. Every mentor I know still pushes their students to go into academia, even though they know that there are options for very successful careers outside of that traditional career path
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And they refuse to retire before age 72 because they just keep teaching the same class they've taught for twenty years.
 
mentors like to have future collaborators and people to continue/add to their research so it makes sense to expend energy to develop the best candidates and push them into academia
 
BiffTannen said:
And they refuse to retire before age 72 because they just keep teaching the same class they've taught for twenty years.
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there is an enormous problem with old white male academics who stuff departments full of bullshit, drain resources, produce little and stifle young, particularly female colleagues
 
I was reading an article about the baroni system for doctorate degrees in biff's Italy where it sounds, somehow, ten times worse than the American system and evokes a lot of corruption and nepotism
 
Italy is a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there more than a few months a year.
 
Chat thread 1331: Creamy hopes his doc has tiny hands

JuiceCrewAllStar said:
then why isn't the answer to have fewer PhD(eac)s?
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That’s part of the much longer answer I didn’t start with. Thankfully I saved it in case anybody asked like a good academic.

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It would be nice to create more tenure track jobs, but I don't think that is the grand solution to the issue of too many PhDs.  Too many PhDs isn't the problem. It's a symptom of larger problems. 

The less people can do with a high school diploma, the more credentials they need to stand out.

There's a longer transition from adolescence to what we traditionally think of as adulthood and getting advanced degrees is one way to make that transition because fewer people can find stable employment. 

I think to address the issue, we need to change the conditions so fewer people are seeking PhDs because they can get usable skills in high school and with a bachelors and master's degree.  PhDs should be for professors and people who want to specialize in a particular area or using specific methods.
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ImTheCaptain said:
mentors like to have future collaborators and people to continue/add to their research so it makes sense to expend energy to develop the best candidates and push them into academia
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That's the positive spin on it, sure. From what I've seen, most of it is more so academics believing that the only way to be truly successful with a PhD is to achieve a faculty position and crank out NIH grants, when in reality there's a lot of other options (in my field).
 
Seems like most advanced degrees have their own set of problems or similar problems and none of it is easy. The biomedical field can look pretty good with your tuition paid for and a 30,000 stipend. Yet, the same problems of supply and demand for academia, prestige of university and where you get your PhD in comparison to how easy it is to set up a PhD program, and then finally even the non-academic route requires some form of continued underpaid post-doc period.
Pay is further diluted out through the use of foreign post-docs that are happy as can be to be a career post-doc making 50,000 the rest of their lives compared to their own country. Then you think about actually what you are learning and suppose to be specialized in, but you finish and are told you need to do the same thing for another 3-5 years for more post education experience even though it’s the exact same shit. In biomedical industry with a PhD you don’t qualify for high paying entry level jobs, because you are too educated, and you don’t qualify for upper level jobs because you don’t have PhD experience, so enjoy more wasted years.
If someone would come to me even in biomedical science and say I want to get a PhD, or MD/PhD and go into industry even then I’d say save yourself time and get a masters in science, and then if you want to move up get an MBA and be on that side of the equation.
 
OK FFS, guys, what's for lunch? My wife bought ~4 pounds too much food for in-town family Easter last weekend, so I'm making massive turkey sandwiches all week on this good "country wheat" bread she got from the Fresh Market. Slathered in mayo with lettuce, tomato, and red onion hits the spot.
 
we had a honeybaked ham for Saturday dinner with the in-laws, which I maintain is about as boring as gets when it comes to dinner main dishes. as part of sandwiches or used elsewhere it's fine, but not my top choice if other options. at least we had lamb for Easter dinner.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
In biomedical industry with a PhD you don’t qualify for high paying entry level jobs, because you are too educated, and you don’t qualify for upper level jobs because you don’t have PhD experience, so enjoy more wasted years. If someone would come to me even in biomedical science and say I want to get a PhD, or MD/PhD and go into industry even then I’d say save yourself time and get a masters in science, and then if you want to move up get an MBA and be on that side of the equation.
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No idea what your experience is in, but this is an overgeneralization for sure. My lab (and collaborating labs) have put multiple people either straight into scientist level industry positions or industry post docs that have transitioned into higher level jobs in the past 5-10 years. I'd also be curious to see how common that MS into MBA route is, not saying it isn't true, it's just that of the masters programs I have seen most graduates end up either going to med school or to get their PhD and really just used it to enhance their application for those programs.
 
I’m not saying there aren’t alternative ways, like industry post-docs but those are the exception to the norm. To get into industry the normal process is still an academic post-doc with experience translating to being able to apply for industry jobs.
 
tigerswood said:
OK FFS, guys, what's for lunch? My wife bought ~4 pounds too much food for in-town family Easter last weekend, so I'm making massive turkey sandwiches all week on this good "country wheat" bread she got from the Fresh Market. Slathered in mayo with lettuce, tomato, and red onion hits the spot.
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I eat in restaurants. Went to Roasting Company today.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
I'm curious which government and institution jobs you're thinking of that would require a PhD instead of a master's
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Just off the top of my head, I think Census Bureau could use Ph.D.s in sociology or statistics, Dept. of Interior could use PhDs in ecology and other natural sciences, DoD could use PhDs in engineering or statistics or really a whole ton of fields, Dept of Ag could use Phds in Agriculture and natural resources. Most states have mirror agencies for many of these federal agencies (except DOD). These are all applied science PhDs though, I am sorry to 09 and Kory, but I can't think of agencies that need PhD in the humanities.
 
birdman said:
Just off the top of my head, I think Census Bureau could use Ph.D.s in sociology or statistics, Dept. of Interior could use PhDs in ecology and other natural sciences, DoD could use PhDs in engineering or statistics or really a whole ton of fields, Dept of Ag could use Phds in Agriculture and natural resources. Most states have mirror agencies for many of these federal agencies (except DOD). These are all applied science PhDs though, I am sorry to 09 and Kory, but I can't think of agencies that need PhD in the humanities.
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Dept of Education, surely
 
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