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But also I've been in the room for silicon valley interviews and those things are not a terribly efficient use of anyone's time either
 
One of these guys played for the Panthers. One is an NFL Hall of Famer. And one is changing the world.

FQpkwg-WUAIgHFb
 
BiffTannen said:
I am quite impressed though that all of our academics agree that they're into wasting everyone's time.
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It’s not a waste of time. Phan exaggerated a bit I hope. Our interviews (or job talks) and ones I’ve done are typically something like this:

Day 1:
Fly in and get picked up by faculty member
Meet with department chair
Dinner with search committee

Day 2:
Breakfast with faculty group
Head to campus for meetings with breaks in between
Series of meetings 20-30 each with office staff, associate dean of faculty affairs, maybe the dean if it’s a major search and he has time
Campus tour
Casual meeting with grad students
Job talk (75 min presentation on their research) and/or teaching a sample class
Lunch with faculty group
Meeting with the chair
Head back to the hotel
Dinner with faculty at someone’s house
Head back to hotel

Day 3:
Breakfast with the chair and/or faculty group
Someone takes them back to airport

The process is as much or more about selling them on the campus and department than trying to determine whether to hire them. Candidates only make it to job talks if they look good on paper and did well in a phone interview.

Searches are a lot of work but it’s also fun to get a bunch of free meals and social events and getting to meet new scholars.
 
wakephan09 said:
Academic interviews could certainly be more considerate of people's time and aware of all of the other (probably ableist) problems with these multi-day interviews. But also I understand that offering someone what may turn out to be a lifetime position requires a thorough vetting
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Definitely some ableist problems with multi-day interviews. I think our department will be more flexible now that we did a successful virtual search. Disability is one of our research areas so we’ve been aware of these concerns but the college didn’t offer much flexibility in terms of format.
 
How is asking someone to interview in person two days in a row for a faculty job at a state university considered ableist ?
 
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BiffTannen said:
How is asking someone to interview in person two days in a row for a faculty job at a state university considered ableist ?
Click to expand...

People with disabilities may need accommodations for a full day of activities.
 
I did a one way interview for a job with Norfolk Southern. It was pretty dumb.

Then I did a virtual interview because of Covid and they couldn’t figure out how to work the cameras. Interviewer was kind of a dick. Glad that didn’t work out.
 
BiffTannen said:
How is asking someone to interview in person two days in a row for a faculty job at a state university considered ableist ?
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what does the interview being at a state university have to do with anything ?
 
cookoutdeac said:
Hmm, not easily, would have to dig into the internals a little bit since it's not surfaced that way in the software afaik.

I'll try to poke around at the rep info tonight and see if I can figure it out.
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It's def possible with a query on the DB. Been a long time since I had to do it though.
 
wakephan09 said:
But also I've been in the room for silicon valley interviews and those things are not a terribly efficient use of anyone's time either
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a friend of mine ended up doing 5 rounds of interviews at a prominent tech company, only to not get the job

hiring in general is pretty nuts considering the fact that you could probably just do 99% of it based on CVs and recommendations from employers/supervisors/mentors
 
It was extended until May 3rd but now some donk conservative judge in FL done said the CDC can’t make such rules.
 
Chat Thread Spring: BBD watches BumCum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Strick, I don’t doubt some job talks are a huge waste of time. Lots of one on one meetings with faculty other than the chair and deans are tedious. No need to do two full days. I am curious what you’ve heard about most faculty and staff having no say in the process. That’s definitely not true in my experience. Everyone who meets the candidate has a say especially our grad students and all faculty who have met the candidate or attended/watched the job talk can vote.

Most of what you’ve described is how any application process is a waste of time if you don’t get what you applied for. In academia, that could be applying to grad schools, applying for fellowships, submitting articles and grant proposals, and applying for jobs. All are a “waste” if you don’t get it but that doesn’t invalidate the process on its own.

Of those processes, job talks (again in my experience) are probably the most fair. You actually get to know someone as a person after becoming familiar with their work. A lot of people have input. It’s not just Reviewer #2 tanking an article or one review panelist who doesn’t understand the proposal. Sure job talks about extremely competitive. That’s the case for both sides. We’ve gotten rejected by our first choice after a search. We’ve had failed searches because all choices got higher paying jobs before we could even invite them to campus.
 
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PhDeac said:
It’s not a waste of time. Phan exaggerated a bit I hope. Our interviews (or job talks) and ones I’ve done are typically something like this:

Day 1:
Fly in and get picked up by faculty member
Meet with department chair
Dinner with search committee

Day 2:
Breakfast with faculty group
Head to campus for meetings with breaks in between
Series of meetings 20-30 each with office staff, associate dean of faculty affairs, maybe the dean if it’s a major search and he has time
Campus tour
Casual meeting with grad students
Job talk (75 min presentation on their research) and/or teaching a sample class
Lunch with faculty group
Meeting with the chair
Head back to the hotel
Dinner with faculty at someone’s house
Head back to hotel

Day 3:
Breakfast with the chair and/or faculty group
Someone takes them back to airport

The process is as much or more about selling them on the campus and department than trying to determine whether to hire them. Candidates only make it to job talks if they look good on paper and did well in a phone interview.

Searches are a lot of work but it’s also fun to get a bunch of free meals and social events and getting to meet new scholars.
Click to expand...
I did exaggerate a bit. This is very close to most of my interview experiences.

Except the built-in breaks have rarely been respected. Everybody wants to talk to you!
 
I'm curious what strick wrote and then edited, because I didn't really mean to agree with biff. In fact I agree with most everything phdeac said here

I actually love the process, but I'm mostly an extrovert. I can't imagine how awful it is for someone who doesn't enjoy talking to people.
 
if there's a group that enjoys talking for the sake of talking more than professors, i don't know who it is. Whenever I meet with faculty at Wake it's like they build time into the calendar to just argue about dumb things.
 
Ha, most faculty and staff I interviewed with told me as much to my face. Likewise, when I wrote thank you notes to everybody I met with, almost everybody who responded was shocked that I wrote them because they have no input in the process. (I can share the places I interviewed at over PM if you want, but it was a pretty diverse group of institutions.)

I disagree that what I'm describing is a function of applications more generally. Academic jobs (and application processes more generally) ask a ton of applicants and recommenders (among other functionaries) and it's oftentimes really unclear what it actually contributes to the process. The first round of an application/interview is fine, though: you have to write a few statements/documents, all of which are more or less conventional/institutionalized at this point. It's like any other job.

What y'all do to us in subsequent interviews, though, is absurd. Providing transparent parameters and expectations would be a start, but nobody I know who gets rejected from a job ever has any idea of what they did wrong. At least when you get spurned by a candidate, you know why.
 
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