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Chicago's Anti-gun Forces Dealt Setback in Court

RaleighDevil

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It should be noted that the City Council could see the handwriting and altered its approach today, allowing ranges. Still, you should read the ruling to see how far these zealots will go. The arguments got farcical.

http://volokh.com/2011/07/06/seventh-circuit-tempo rarily-blocks-chicago-gun-range-ban/

The City’s firing‐range ban is not merely regulatory; it prohibits the “law‐abiding, responsible citizens” of Chicago from engaging in target practice in the controlled environment of a firing range. This is a serious encroachment on the right to maintain proficiency in firearm use, an important corollary to the meaningful exercise of the core right to possess firearms for self‐defense. That the City conditions gun possession on range training is an additional reason to closely scrutinize the range ban. All this suggests that a more rigorous showing than that applied in Skoien should be required, if not quite “strict scrutiny.”



To be appropriately respectful of the individual rights at issue in this case, the City bears the burden of establishing a strong public‐interest justification for its ban on range training: The City must establish a close fit between the range ban and the actual public interests it serves, and also that the public’s interests are strong enough to justify so substantial an encumbrance on individual Second Amendment rights. Stated differently, the City must demonstrate that civilian target practice at a firing range creates such genuine and serious risks to public safety that prohibiting range training throughout the city is justified.



At this stage of the proceedings, the City has not come close to satisfying this standard. In the district court, the City presented no data or expert opinion to support the range ban, so we have no way to evaluate the seriousness of its claimed public‐safety concerns. Indeed, on this record those concerns are entirely speculative and, in any event, can be addressed through sensible zoning and other appropriately tailored regulations. That much is apparent from the testimony of the City’s own witnesses, particularly Sergeant Bartoli, who testified to several common‐sense range safety measures that could be adopted short of a complete ban...


At the preliminary‐injunction hearing, the City highlighted an additional public‐safety concern also limited to mobile ranges: the risk of contamination from lead residue left on range users’ hands after firing a gun. ...

It cannot be taken seriously as a justification for banishing all firing ranges from the city. To raise it at all suggests pretext.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/clout/ chi-city-council-approves-gun-ranges-in-chicago-20 110706,0,6446088.story

The Chicago City Council today voted to legalize firing ranges inside city limits as Mayor Rahm Emanuel tries to head off a federal court decision that could force the city to welcome them.

The vote came without discussion or dissent today.

The practice shooting venues could be built only in areas of Chicago zoned for manufacturing and would have to be more than 1,000 feet away from residential areas, schools, parks, liquor retailers, libraries, museums and hospitals.

The ranges also would have to be indoors, and a license to operate one would cost $4,000 every two years.
 
As Chris Rock says, "Don't ban guns. make bullets cost $5000."

The city could put in a $10/bullet tax for shooting ranges.
 
As Chris Rock says, "Don't ban guns. make bullets cost $5000."

The city could put in a $10/bullet tax for shooting ranges.

They should just change it from one hour of range training to get a permit to 100 hours.
 
Thread title fail...you should channel your inner RJ:

PROOF that the second amendment foes don't have a leg to stand on!!!
 
As Chris Rock says, "Don't ban guns. make bullets cost $5000."

The city could put in a $10/bullet tax for shooting ranges.

We'll do that as soon as the abortion-rights crowd tells us it's all right to levy a similar style tax on abortions. Shall we say $1000? It doesn't stop you from getting one, now does it?
 
"In the First Amendment context, the Supreme Court long ago made it clear that “ ‘one is not to have the exercise of his liberty of expression in appropriate places abridged on the plea that it may be exercised in some other place.’ ” Schad v. Borough of Mt. Ephraim, 452 U.S. 61, 76‐77 (1981) (quoting Schneider v. State of New Jersey, 308 U.S. 147, 163 (1939)). The same principle applies here. It’s hard to imagine anyone suggesting that Chicago may prohibit the exercise of a freespeech or religious‐liberty right within its borders on the rationale that those rights may be freely enjoyed in the suburbs. That sort of argument should be no less unimaginable in the Second Amendment context."
 
Now i've seen everything. Shooting a gun is now free speech....
 
Now i've seen everything. Shooting a gun is now free speech....

"In the First Amendment context, the Supreme Court long ago made it clear that “ ‘one is not to have the exercise of his liberty of expression in appropriate places abridged on the plea that it may be exercised in some other place.’ ” Schad v. Borough of Mt. Ephraim, 452 U.S. 61, 76‐77 (1981) (quoting Schneider v. State of New Jersey, 308 U.S. 147, 163 (1939)). The same principle applies here. It’s hard to imagine anyone suggesting that Chicago may prohibit the exercise of a freespeech or religious‐liberty right within its borders on the rationale that those rights may be freely enjoyed in the suburbs. That sort of argument should be no less unimaginable in the Second Amendment context."

Reading comprehension fail.
 
I don't understand what is so confusing about the second amendment. People should legally be able to posses and bear arms when they don't pose a threat or danger to the public. Shooting a gun at a sanctioned firing range is in no way a threat to the public, and is a far cry from yelling fire in a theater.
 
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I don't understand what is so confusing about the second amendment. People should legally be able to posses and bear arms when they don't pose a threat or danger to the. Shooting a gun at a sanctioned firing range is in no way a threat to the public, and is a far cry from yelling fire in a theater.

If I might add to this, allowing guns and not allowing ranges just means you have more gun owners who do not know how to properly operate their guns. It is every gun owners responsibility to know how to safely possess and operate any gun he owns. If nothing else, these ranges teach proper etiquette like don't point your gun at anything or anyone you do not plan on killing and making sure your you know how to "safe" your gun.
 
What's your problem? You don't like guns so no one else should have one?

Chicago had a handgun ban in place for the past 30 years. I actually live in Chicago and support the ban in the city. I don't read the second amendment like the gun nuts read it, nor do I think history supports their version. I think Heller and McDonald were wrongly decided by the most conservative Supreme Court in the country's history. That' s my problem. Now the gun nuts are going even crazier with all the concealed carry without a permit BS. Give them an inch and they'll take a yard.

If handguns are going to be allowed in the city, I'm not saying no one should have them, but I want serious regulations.
 
If I might add to this, allowing guns and not allowing ranges just means you have more gun owners who do not know how to properly operate their guns. It is every gun owners responsibility to know how to safely possess and operate any gun he owns. If nothing else, these ranges teach proper etiquette like don't point your gun at anything or anyone you do not plan on killing and making sure your you know how to "safe" your gun.

Good, I agree -- then there should be 100 hours of live range training before one can get a permit. Safety and all. One hour is useless

Or folks could go to one of the many ranges immediately outside city limits. Or they could engage in other types of training, as the concurrence suggests:

But the City has not banned all firearms
training; it has banned only one type of training. There is no
ban on classroom training. There is no ban on training with
a simulator and several realistic simulators are commercially
available, complete with guns that mimic the recoil of
firearms discharging live ammunition. See e.g.
http://www.virtrasystems.com/law‐enforcement‐ training/
virtra‐range‐le (last visited July 6, 2011);
http://www.meggitttrainingsystems.com/main.php?id=25
&name=LE_Virtual_Bluefire_Weapons (last visited June 24,
2011); http://www.ontargetfirearmstraining.com/
simulator.php (last visited July 6, 2011). It is possible
that, with simulated training, technology will obviate
the need for live‐range training.
 
"the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."- 2nd amendment
I confused how exactly do you read this?
 
Sorry, but a de facto ban won't fly either. The SCOTUS ruled as much when it dealt with poll taxes in the 60s.

WQOW...Gumby would be proud...comparing a tax on shooting to poll taxes is like making mother's milk a controlled substance since probably 95-98% of all heroin addicts start on mother's milk. It must be a gateway drug.

Further if taxes limit free speech, then all taxes must be unconstitutional.
 
"the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."- 2nd amendment
I confused how exactly do you read this?

I'm not going to get into this with you. Read the Stevens dissent in Heller if you want my view.
 
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