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Childress

couldn't you say the same thing about CP3?

Edited to add: I'm not sure it matters who recruited Downey. All I'm saying is that you take Duncan off our 1995 team and I don't think we are tournament team. We had no center. Duncan didn't take anyone's scholarship. His was a near desperate scholly. We were throwing some darts in a dart board and hoping one stuck (Blom, Makhtar, and Duncan).

On the flip side, CP3 was took what was developing into a very good basketball team to a level higher. We HAD a starting 1, but CP3 was an elite player that moved Downey to the bench. All the other pieces were there: shooting guard with range, check, small forward who was tall and elastic and could rebound, check, solid ACC 4, check, solid to awesome 5, check, depth - a little eratic at times (Strick, Ellis), but check. We were good with CP3 and great with him. And I totally acknowledged he elevated everyone else's game, particularly Gray and Big E.
 
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jaybone said:
couldn't you say the same thing about CP3
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Who carries that 2005 team without CP3? 1995 team still would have had Childress without Duncan.

Edit-My point about Downey was just an acknowledgement of another player recruited by Odom who played well here. I think Duncan and CP3 were both very important to their teams and both would have struggled without them. I just disagree that Duncan was more important to the 1995 team then CP3 was to the 2005 team. J-Gray and Big-E proved the following year just how much better CP3 made them.
 
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ProbationDeac said:
Who carries that 2005 team without CP3? 1995 team still would have had Childress without Duncan.
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Well, in the two OTs against WVU after CP3 fouled out it was Downey in a big way.

I think if you were to ask Chill how tough it would have been without an emerging superstar in Tim, he would say it would've been impossible. I mean come on, Chill was an elite college player, but Duncan goes down as in the conversation for top 5 college player of all time. And he was a gift from the heavens. It's not like we beat out Carolina and Kentucky for him. We beat out ... Providence, who was as desperate as we were.
 
jaybone said:
Well, in the two OTs against WVU after CP3 fouled out it was Downey in a big way.

I think if you were to ask Chill how tough it would have been without an emerging superstar in Tim, he would say it would've been impossible. I mean come on, Chill was an elite college player, but Duncan goes down as in the conversation for top 5 college player of all time. And he was a gift from the heavens. It's not like we beat out Carolina and Kentucky for him. We beat out ... Providence, who was as desperate as we were.
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What does us beating out Providence have to do with how valuable a player was to us? Everyone knows the recruiting story of how we got Duncan just as everyone knows CP3's story. What does that have to do with the value to their team?

I agree that Childress would say Duncan was valuable to the team. I am not even arguing that point. Without Duncan, there's no question that team doesn't win the ACC tournament. But, I do think they would have still made the NCAA's because of how valuable Childress was to that team still. I don't think Downey had the ability to carry us to an NCAA bid and I love Downey but he's not that type of a player.
 
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ProbationDeac said:
Who carries that 2005 team without CP3? 1995 team still would have had Childress without Duncan.

Edit-My point about Downey was just an acknowledgement of another player recruited by Odom who played well here. I think Duncan and CP3 were both very important to their teams and both would have struggled without them. I just disagree that Duncan was more important to the 1995 team then CP3 was to the 2005 team. J-Gray and Big-E proved the following year just how much better CP3 made them.
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Dude, Downey was gone too the next year. That's my point. We would have been pretty good with Downey at the point in 2005 without CP3. Elite? No. But a tourney team.

I have a hard time seeing how we survive against any team with size without Tim on the 1995 team. Unless you just assume a solid ACC player like a Tom Hammonds would have magically appeared at the 5 if Duncan did not come to Wake
 
ProbationDeac said:
What does us beating out Providence have to do with how valuable a player was to us? Everyone knows the recruiting story of how we got Duncan just as everyone knows CP3's story. What does that have to do with the value to their team?

I agree that Childress would say Duncan was valuable to the team. I am not even arguing that point. Without Duncan, there's no question that team doesn't win the ACC tournament. But, I do think they would have still made the NCAA's because of how valuable Childress was to that team still. I don't think Downey had the ability to carry us to an NCAA bid and I love Downey but he's not that type of a player.
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Okay. I disagree.
 
ProbationDeac said:
Ha ha ha ha. You make a compelling argument. I simply disagree as well.
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Well, I've thrown out all the logical reasons and I'm not convincing you, so I think I can go back and forth about six times before I come to the conclusion that either my argument is not convincing or you are not willing to open yourself up to being convinced (i.e., wrong). Am I right?
 
I am a known bzzzzouter, and take this as such, but does anyone else think that this is an implicit admission from our athletic dept that Bzzzzz can not "mentor" his players?

Either way, I am so glad to have Chill back in the fold.
 
jaybone said:
Well, I've thrown out all the logical reasons and I'm not convincing you, so I think I can go back and forth about six times before I come to the conclusion that either my argument is not convincing or you are not willing to open yourself up to being convinced (i.e., wrong). Am I right?
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Actually it's pretty simple, I think you're wrong. I don't find your "logical" reasons convincing enough to change my view.
 
Sgt Hulka said:
I am a known bzzzzouter, and take this as such, but does anyone else think that this is an implicit admission from our athletic dept that Bzzzzz can not "mentor" his players?
Either way, I am so glad to have Chill back in the fold.
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No
 
No. Simple case of getting a "good cop." A sign that the staff/dept doesn't want the coaches to be the players' "friend."
 
Sgt Hulka said:
I am a known bzzzzouter, and take this as such, but does anyone else think that this is an implicit admission from our athletic dept that Bzzzzz can not "mentor" his players?

Either way, I am so glad to have Chill back in the fold.
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Not so much. This is damage control. And smart damage control as far as I'm concerned.

Chill will right the boat... but then what does he do?
 
The Stig said:
I'll make it remedial for you: Take out Rodney, Chill and Duncan and the rest of our team was made up of average players for the 90s ACC.
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The 90/91 team had 4 guys that played in the NBA.
 
Does anyone remember who the guy on the Carolina bench is who throws his hands up to his face like, "Oh no"? It happens at around four seconds into this video.
 
jaybone said:
Oh I disagree completely. Take Duncan off our championship team and yikes. Pretty good guards for sure (Chill, Rusty, Braxton, Rutland), but we would have had a gaping hole in the middle where someone with size is supposed to be.

A lineup of Downey, Gray, Strickland, Big E, Ellis, et al would have been a top 15/20 team without CP3, imo
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Braxton was a great one.
 
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