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Chris Mooney for Our Next Coach

Strickland33 said:
Give me a break. Lots of mid-majors pull in a 4* prospect every 10 years.

Here's how Richmond stacks up relative to the rest of the A-10



Charlotte had multiple 4* prospects in 2002, but single 4* classes in 2003 and 2007. And they've sucked for awhile.

Dayton in 2002, 2004, 2007, and 2010.

Duquesne went back-to-back in 2006-2007.

Temple in 2002-2003

In 10 years, Xavier has failed to recruit a 4* prospect just twice and one year was a class of 0.

etc. etc. not enough time in life to refute this claim with individual examples...
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Pretty much all I get from your list is that Xavier and Dayton are the only programs in the A10 that regularly pull in 4 star recruits. You're going to find a lot of schools out there will occasionally get one, but very few mid-majors get them with much regularity. I did a quick survey of what I consider to be the top mid-majors, and my only additions to Dayton and Xavier as programs that regularly get 4 star recruits are Gonzaga, New Mexico, Memphis, and UNLV (and I was pretty generous in my definitions of "top mid major" and "regularly"). That's a pretty select pool when there are some 200 mid-major programs in existence.

Mooney was hired at Richmond in 2004 so his first class would have been 2005.
Year NR/2/3/4
2005 1/0/0/0
2006 1/3/0/0
2007 0/4/0/0
2008 0/2/1/0
2009 0/2/0/0
2010 0/2/1/0
2011 0/2/2/0
2012 1/1/0/0

So as he builds the program he is definitely appears to be progressing in the right direction with recruiting.

FWIW, I have said in the past, and I'll say it again that [Redacted] proved me wrong with his recruiting. I will also say that my man crush on Mooney isn't necessarily always rational.
 
TBR said:
Pretty much all I get from your list is that Xavier and Dayton are the only programs in the A10 that regularly pull in 4 star recruits. You're going to find a lot of schools out there will occasionally get one, but very few mid-majors get them with much regularity. I did a quick survey of what I consider to be the top mid-majors, and my only additions to Dayton and Xavier as programs that regularly get 4 star recruits are Gonzaga, New Mexico, Memphis, and UNLV (and I was pretty generous in my definitions of "top mid major" and "regularly"). That's a pretty select pool when there are some 200 mid-major programs in existence.

Mooney was hired at Richmond in 2004 so his first class would have been 2005.
Year NR/2/3/4
2005 1/0/0/0
2006 1/3/0/0
2007 0/4/0/0
2008 0/2/1/0
2009 0/2/0/0
2010 0/2/1/0
2011 0/2/2/0
2012 1/1/0/0

So as he builds the program he is definitely appears to be progressing in the right direction with recruiting.

FWIW, I have said in the past, and I'll say it again that [Redacted] proved me wrong with his recruiting.
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My point was that there are plenty of mid-majors that recruit well, especially if by well you mean semi-regularly acquiring 4* players (and the list is much bigger than the one you provided; it literally gets insane when you take into consideration transfers, too.) and that Mooney's record hardly protects him from criticism...especially since the players who played out of their minds in recent years for Richmond were 2* players.
 
Strickland33 said:
My point was that there are plenty of mid-majors that recruit well, especially if by well you mean semi-regularly acquiring 4* players (and the list is much bigger than the one you provided; it literally gets insane when you take into consideration transfers, too.) and that Mooney's record hardly protects him from criticism...especially since the players who played out of their minds in recent years for Richmond were 2* players.
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I will say I didn't look at transfers. I pretty much defined regularly as more than 3 in the past 10 recruiting seasons. I'd like to see you find more than 3 schools not in the A10 (I didn't check your work ;)) and not on my list.

I also used Scout's rankings which may not be the best.
 
IN. Make it happen, Ron. We are tired of the Bzz show.
 
TBR said:
I will say I didn't look at transfers. I pretty much defined regularly as more than 3 in the past 10 recruiting seasons. I'd like to see you find more than 3 schools not in the A10 (I didn't check your work ;)) and not on my list.

I also used Scout's rankings which may not be the best.
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One of these days when I'm not in the middle of exams, I'd love to work with a stats-guy to get all of this into an RSCI-like database... I know ESPN did something similar, but it was so facile and lazy considering the potential for such inquiry.

I think Mooney is Bzz with a better public persona and less patience, but that's just me.
 
Chris Mooney can coach.

With that said, the basketball gurus on this board would have run him off with torches and pitchforks after his 8-22 record in his second season at UR.

After two seasons at Richmond, his overall record was 21-39 with a conference record of 10-22.

And I almost forgot... he finished 11th and 12th in the A10 in his first two seasons and the only postseason tournament he earned in four seasons was a CBI bid. In his fifth season he finally made the NCAA tourney and the sixth season yielded the S16 run.

But I can't believe those LORS fans tolerated that loser for so long!!!111
 
Colonel Angus said:
Chris Mooney can coach.

With that said, the basketball gurus on this board would have run him off with torches and pitchforks after his 8-22 record in his second season at UR.

After two seasons at Richmond, his overall record was 21-39 with a conference record of 10-22.

And I almost forgot... he finished 11th and 12th in the A10 in his first two seasons and the only postseason tournament he earned in four seasons was a CBI bid. In his fifth season he finally made the NCAA tourney and the sixth season yielded the S16 run.

But I can't believe those LORS fans tolerated that loser for so long!!!111
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Yeah, this is absolutely right. Bzz'in sentiment aside, context is a b**ch. Lots of lazy, dogmatic posters on this board.
 
Colonel Angus said:
Chris Mooney can coach.

With that said, the basketball gurus on this board would have run him off with torches and pitchforks after his 8-22 record in his second season at UR.

After two seasons at Richmond, his overall record was 21-39 with a conference record of 10-22.

... But I can't believe those LORS fans tolerated that loser for so long!!!111
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If we hired Mooney today, the context would be totally different and our fans would give him time.

For one thing, Mooney is young, and if he builds a program, we know he will likely be here for many years to come. Second (and most important), Mooney would come with a proven track record of building winning programs at academically tough schools. He took over a program in total shambles at UR (following Jerry Wainwright, a Wake coaching alumnus who, like Dino Gaudio, was promoted one level too high) and Mooney rebuilt it from scratch to one of the nation's most outstanding mid-major programs, including a Sweet 16 run last year.
 
FreeStateDeac said:
If we hired Mooney today, the context would be totally different and our fans would give him time.

For one thing, Mooney is young, and if he builds a program, we know he will likely be here for many years to come. Second (and most important), Mooney would come with a proven track record of building winning programs at academically tough schools. He took over a program in total shambles at UR (following Jerry Wainwright, a Wake coaching alumnus who, like Dino Gaudio, was promoted one level too high) and Mooney rebuilt it from scratch to one of the nation's most outstanding mid-major programs, including a Sweet 16 run last year.
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Excellent post.
 
FreeStateDeac said:
If we hired Mooney today, the context would be totally different and our fans would give him time.
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Of course the context would be totally different if we hired Mooney today after two straight NCAA trips with a S16 appearance. He's a rising star in college basketball.

Did you fail to understand my post or did you just choose to ignore Mooney's results in his first 4 seasons at UR?
 
Colonel Angus said:
Did you fail to understand my post or did you just choose to ignore Mooney's results in his first 4 seasons at UR?
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I think it's a unique combination of both, strangely.

I guess that's what a Wake education, Bzz'out blinders, and getting started on the bottle too early will do for you...
 
Colonel Angus said:
Of course the context would be totally different if we hired Mooney today after two straight NCAA trips with a S16 appearance. He's a rising star in college basketball.

Did you fail to understand my post or did you just choose to ignore Mooney's results in his first 4 seasons at UR?
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The Buzzouters are totally irtratioanl. Your absolutely accruate portrayl of mooney zt richmond is irrelevant to them giving Buzz the same opportunity (or any opportunity) at Wake.
 
Colonel Angus said:
Of course the context would be totally different if we hired Mooney today after two straight NCAA trips with a S16 appearance. He's a rising star in college basketball.

Did you fail to understand my post or did you just choose to ignore Mooney's results in his first 4 seasons at UR?
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I think the point is that Wake should be able to hire someone that has actually already accomplished something instead of hoping for it to happen for the first time.
 
JKW385 said:
[/B]


Gloom and doom aside, let's be real: Wake is still a great job, probably still in the top half of the ACC despite the drive off the cliff in the past 2 years. Any rational A-10 coach would STRONGLY consider the chance to coach here. The sooner we stop feeling sorry for ourselves and remind ourselves that we do offer a lot to new coach, the sooner we can re-build the program.
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You would think the "drive off the cliff" would be a selling point for any coach hoping to make a name for himself in a conference like the ACC.

With the resources that Wake has, we shouldn't have a hard time finding a good coach who wants to bust his balls and build our bball program up.

We just need Wellman to get out of the way.
 
Comparing Mooney's first two years at Richmond to [Redacted]'s first two years at Wake isn't fair to Mooney. The three years before Mooney was hired, Wainwright went 40-42. The three years before [Redacted] came in, Wake went 61-31.

Frankly, they are similar coaches, the difference is that Mooney proved he could rebuild a program, [Redacted] never did that.

There is almost no way that [Redacted] was the better option than Mooney then or now. That we seemingly completely ignored Mooney to go with a worse candidate from the other side of the country is baffling.

ETA: Read this: http://www.aolnews.com/2010/10/04/chris-mooneys-graceful-toughness-rebuilds-richmond-into-threat/ (before the Sweet 16, after the hire). Perfect fit, especially if Wellman really believed a culture change was needed.
 
Anthony Grant (#12 Bama) and Chris Mack (#11 Xavier) both could have been persuaded to come to Wake.
BTW.. does the pitchforks come out if we get blasted by HPU?
 
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