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College admissions and race

I just wish I could break my coworker of calling our Asian students "Orientals".
 
I can top that.

My step mother in law who is straight up East Baltimore chauffeured a bunch of us home the other night from a Christmas Party. When we got to one friends house to drop her off, my mother in law remarked that she had dropped this woman's children off in the past after play dates with my kids. She made reference to the woman's house keeper as "that real nice colored lady".

I almost slid under the seat.
 
AWakeKnight said:
This is a joke, right? You can get socioeconomic diversity in your family?

Please tell me you were joking - otherwise you're going to be downgraded from idiot to 'active IQ inhibitor.'
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I have significant socio-economic diversity in my extended family.
 
3 minute rule said:
I can top that.

My step mother in law who is straight up East Baltimore chauffeured a bunch of us home the other night from a Christmas Party. When we got to one friends house to drop her off, my mother in law remarked that she had dropped this woman's children off in the past after play dates with my kids. She made reference to the woman's house keeper as "that real nice colored lady".

I almost slid under the seat.
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I think that's just generational. I'm sure it's how my grandchildren will feel one day if I ever use the word black. When my dad was a kid he was on a boy scout trip and some kid was dropping the "N" bomb in the car. My grandfather told the kid if he used that word again he would kick him out of the car.

Kid says the word and my grandfather pulled off the to the side of the rode and told him to get out. (there was another car in the caravan for the kid to get into.). Fast forward to 2008 at thanksgiving and we are watching ESPN and he mentions that he really likes Chris Carter as an analyst and then says, "what's the name of that other announcer that's really selfish and always talks about himself? You know, the colored fellow.". Keyshawn Johnson? "yeah. That's the guy. I don't care much for him."
 
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DeaconCav06 said:
I think that's just generational. I'm sure it's how my grandchildren will feel one day if I ever use the word black. When my dad was a kid he was on a boys out trip and some kid was dropping the "N" bomb in the car. My grandfather told the kid if he used that word again he would kick him out of the car.

Kid says the word and my grandfather
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Cliffhanger!
 
ITK said:
I just wish I could break my coworker of calling our Asian students "Orientals".
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If they are actually from Asia, then it is technically correct. Political correctness is stupid. Said can suck it.
 
This happened to Jews in the Ivies and other schools in the 50s and 60s.

The Chancellor of UC-Berkley said she wcould take a class of all students of Asian ancestry, with perfect GPAs and perfect or nearly perfect SATs.
 
DeaconCav06 said:
I have significant socio-economic diversity in my extended family.
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Yeah, I wouldn't think that would be a controversial statement. Heck, my wife and I make significantly more than either of our parents did. Most people aren't going to live with or regularly associate informally (ie not at work) with a person of a different race unless it's in school or from school.
 
AWakeKnight said:
I'm not positive, but I would be willing to bet that that the above difference in income above doesn't deviate more than one order of magnitude (90,000/y v. 900,000/y). You probably think that socioeconomic diversity is being able to afford HBO as opposed to just basic cable.

The two examples in my post above are representative of how you can live life for nearly 30 years and never encounter truly rich or truly poor people on a day to day basis. Seeing how these two groups of people (and others in between) have helped me relate so much better to people in my life.
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The gap between my parents and grandparents was more than that.

I also think that one order of magnitude isn't necessary to have a difference. My great grandparents lived in wnc, made all their own stuff most of their lives (including shoes etc) and had no indoor plumbing. My granddad worked for the state in law enforcement and the jump in lifestyle was probably bigger than most.
 
I forgot how much diversity matters in determining applications. Every school I'm applying to right now says they consider diversity as "a major factor in the selection process".

As a white male I really don't have much to say about diversity other than I'm diverse from diversity.
 
One of the girls in my program when to law school at Central. She jokes that she got a diversity scholarship.
 
AWakeKnight said:
I'm not saying that there isn't a difference between $90,000 and $900,000. Of course there is a difference. There is also a difference between $45,000/y and 60,000/y, but these relatively small increments don't fundamentally change the way that individuals see the world.

My point was that someone who grew up with parents who made $10,000,000/y is going to have absolutely no frame of reference to understand where a person who's parents made $10,000/y. Only though experience and exposure on a day-to-day basis to these different groups of people can we truly understand how they experience life.

For example, I've had friends discuss lunch plans and include upscale restaurants ($40-50 a plate) in the daily selection. One time cost came up and the friend's response was, "We make enough for things like that not to matter." It wasn't said pretentiously, but in the same way that I would look quizzically over someone spending a few minutes deciding between a $.90 pack of gum and a $.50 pack. I honestly believe her when she said she doesn't consider the cost when choosing a place to eat. She makes about $4,500,000/y. Her life is fundamentally different from mine on even the minute level.

You mentioned your parents and grandparents. We should be careful with the time variable here. A dollar isn't what it used to be and the standard of living in the United States has gone through dramatic changes since the 1920s due to advancements in mass production and standardization.
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Trust me, the difference is more than that even adjusting for time (not to mention my grandfather didn't retire until he died and he died in 2005).
 
AWakeKnight said:
Work in admissions at a top tier law school for three years, then get back to me.

Turn amazing and well-deserving people away from your institution every year with a letter saying something like, "As you know, we receive far more applications than we are able to offer admission to. You're an extremely well qualified candidate, but we are unable to offer you a place in this incoming class." Then turn around and full-ride admit someone who's a complete douchebag with LSAT scores nearly 20 points lower (than the guy you turned down), a middle road GPA from Morehouse, a DUI conviction, and a father who makes over 250k a year. Do that dozens of times a year every year and see if you become cynical.

Now THAT is diversity.
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Sounds like that institution needs to do a better job attracting minority applicants.

Knight, you went through and explained things you learned from your less fortunate classmates. What did you learn from minority classmates?
 
AWakeKnight said:
I lived in one of the most racist foreign countries on the planet for a year as a minority. It's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

Every race is going to have its advantages and drawbacks, but there isn't any reason for the government to step in to try to "equalize" things. It hasn't ever worked in the past and it certainly isn't working now.
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This is a new one. "I was a minority for a year." It beats "my best friend is black".
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
In applications they do. There's no reason why simply being white should require a 350 point increase on the SAT over being black.
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What knid of scores do you think you would have gotten if you had to share books that were fifteen yearts old? Had one science lab in the entire HS? family made poverty level income? Had the worst teachers the school districtt had to offer? Didn't have a computer? How about having to deal with gangs every day?

Those are just some of the issues.

By the way, do yo ubthink it's fair for women to need better scores than men do?
 
AWakeKnight said:
I lived in one of the most racist foreign countries on the planet for a year as a minority. It's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

Every race is going to have its advantages and drawbacks, but there isn't any reason for the government to step in to try to "equalize" things. It hasn't ever worked in the past and it certainly isn't working now.
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You weren't alive to know how wrong you are about this. It has worked remarkably well in this country. There was little to no black middle class when AA started.

What you also don't get is that women have benefited more than people of color by AA. for decades women, who weer massively more qualified than white men, were denied entrance to most professional schools.

Women still make less for the same job than men do.
 
RJKarl said:
What knid of scores do you think you would have gotten if you had to share books that were fifteen yearts old? Had one science lab in the entire HS? family made poverty level income? Had the worst teachers the school districtt had to offer? Didn't have a computer? How about having to deal with gangs every day?

Those are just some of the issues.

By the way, do yo ubthink it's fair for women to need better scores than men do?
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but right here you're assuming that black applicants come from student populations/areas where those are issues. these are more effects of low socioeconomic standing than race.
 
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