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Criminal Justice System and the War on Drugs

Anybody for two parent families should be in favor of that article.
 
I honestly was unaware that the war on drugs had such an effect on the women's prison population.
 
Strickland33 said:
BUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
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Amazingly, some people believe the best way to encourage personal responsibility is to put them in prison and put their children in the hands of the state.
 
Obama to Make First-Ever Presidential Visit to a Federal Prison for VICE Special

President Barack Obama announced today that he will visit the El Reno federal prison in Oklahoma next week to participate in a VICE special on America's criminal justice system. It will make Obama the first sitting US president to visit a federal prison.

As part of the VICE special airing this fall on HBO, Obama and VICE founder Shane Smith, host of the special, will tour the facility and meet with prisoners, prison staff, and law enforcement officials.
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Wow. That's big. I await the jokes on the Facebook thread.
 
50 years into the War on Drugs and heroin is cheaper than ever.

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21665009-how-midwest-battling-drug-epidemic-hydra-headed-scourge?fsrc=scn/fb/te/pe/ed/ahydraheadedscourge

Three-quarters of heroin addicts used to take prescription drugs and switched to heroin, which is cheaper and more easily available on the black market. A gram of pure heroin costs less than half what it did in the 1980s, in real terms. “This is a doctor-caused epidemic,” says Tom Frieden, boss of the CDC. In states with higher prescription rate of opioid painkillers, such as Michigan, Ohio and Indiana, the number of heroin addicts is higher too.
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keep up that good work drug warriors
:umkc:
 
Netflix released a documentary called "the house I live in," very good production value and entertainment value in addition to the educational value. it's about policing, criminal justice system, new jim crow, economic white flight, history of the war on drugs in general and specific drugs in particular. would be very enlightening to a number of people on this board, myself included.

one thing i had a question about: the documentary claims that at the time regan announced his renewed war on drugs, the rate of drug violence was falling, then "he got lucky" (~1:06:00) and the crack epidemic started.

It wasn't my impression that he "got lucky," but that the CIA facilitated the large scale spread of crack by protecting dealers from prosecution as assets. CIA internal investigation didn't find any evidence that they had sold in domestic markets, but it's also known CIA operatives delt cocaine in south america...wouldn't be a huge leap
 
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Not sure if this is the best place to put it but just came across an article from the Journal of Criminal Justice which comes to the conclusion that community-based graduated sanctions are neither more or less effective than the imposition of a jail sentence for probation and parole violations. If there is truly no statistically significant difference, the associated costs of the imposition of a jail sentence (around $100 a day to house, need for formal hearing and due process, impact on future employability of the violator, family disruption and loss of support system, etc.) make it hard to argue for incarceration across-the-board for violators. Certainly there is a need for incarceration in some areas (article notes that the imposition of short-term jail sentences for offenders' non-compliance was associated with a number of positive outcomes including reduced positive drug tests, fewer missed appointments, and lower revocation rates - generally thought to be due to the perception that even a shorter-term jail sentence is more punitive than doing some community service thus providing value under a deterrence theory) but keeping people out of jail for missing one meeting and instead assigning some sort of writing task or community service may actually be a cheaper alternative for society with no less of an effect than jail time.

Certainly worth a read if anyone has a few minutes: http://prayforjusticeinwi.org/wp-co...d-sanctions.-Journal-of-Criminal-Justice-.pdf

The article is solely looking to compare the impact of jail time for parole/probation offenders versus community-based graduated sanctions for the same offenders and the article notes that prior research has revealed that the use of graduated sanctions is effective in improving offender outcomes in general (this one is merely compared to jail time). It has shortcomings noted as well - primarily IMO that this is based in Wyoming where there's a largely homogenous population. *BKF and JHMD bat signal* This means that the methodology does not have a great way of controlling for cultural-based differences (for instance, jail sentences are generally viewed as less punitive by communities of color than by white people) *BKF and JHMD batsignal*
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Not sure if this is the best place to put it but just came across an article from the Journal of Criminal Justice which comes to the conclusion that community-based graduated sanctions are neither more or less effective than the imposition of a jail sentence for probation and parole violations. If there is truly no statistically significant difference, the associated costs of the imposition of a jail sentence (around $100 a day to house, need for formal hearing and due process, impact on future employability of the violator, family disruption and loss of support system, etc.) make it hard to argue for incarceration across-the-board for violators. Certainly there is a need for incarceration in some areas (article notes that the imposition of short-term jail sentences for offenders' non-compliance was associated with a number of positive outcomes including reduced positive drug tests, fewer missed appointments, and lower revocation rates - generally thought to be due to the perception that even a shorter-term jail sentence is more punitive than doing some community service thus providing value under a deterrence theory) but keeping people out of jail for missing one meeting and instead assigning some sort of writing task or community service may actually be a cheaper alternative for society with no less of an effect than jail time.

Certainly worth a read if anyone has a few minutes: http://prayforjusticeinwi.org/wp-co...d-sanctions.-Journal-of-Criminal-Justice-.pdf

The article is solely looking to compare the impact of jail time for parole/probation offenders versus community-based graduated sanctions for the same offenders and the article notes that prior research has revealed that the use of graduated sanctions is effective in improving offender outcomes in general (this one is merely compared to jail time). It has shortcomings noted as well - primarily IMO that this is based in Wyoming where there's a largely homogenous population. *BKF and JHMD bat signal* This means that the methodology does not have a great way of controlling for cultural-based differences (for instance, jail sentences are generally viewed as less punitive by communities of color than by white people) *BKF and JHMD batsignal*
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Some fair points, especially on the imposition of short term jail sentences. I would like to see it expanded to more than just probation violations, and it's an issue that is equally frustrating to prosecutors and defense counsel. I don't know if most people realize how much it takes to get sent to jail in many parts of the country (there are some huge disparities on this - even county to county in the same state). In many cases, a person can have multiple felonies - even violent felonies - before jailtime is considered a possibility. In a lot of cases, a person can be facing a stiff jail sentence as a habitual offender when they have never actually served any jail time before. If you think about it, it doesn't make much sense at all for anyone.
 
What doesn't make sense at all? The process, disparities, jail time at all in some cases?
 
What's an example of a violent felony committed before jail time is a possibility? I can't think of any off the top of my head although I'm sure you're talking more about the way things practically operate rather than what crimes would theoretically have a jail/prison sentence imposed.
 
From a more general perspective I think the focus on sentencing should be honed in on what we're actually trying to accomplish with the sentencing and then see if our actual practice reflects that. I know that there are a lot of theories out there on this topic but I think that some good starting ideas are: punishment, rehabilitation, incapacitation (protecting the community from the offender), and deterrence (both general deterrence for community and special for the individual). It seems to me that there are better ways than through the prison system to accomplish a lot of these. Incapacitation could be achieved through some form of house arrest (although this has its own associated costs). Punishment could be accomplished by requiring X hours of community service each week. Rehabilitation isn't really served through the prison system at all and as the article above discusses briefly can actually result in people being exposed to deleterious cultural aspects of the prison system just further exacerbating the underlying problems the individual offender had prior to entering prison.
 
PhDeac said:
What doesn't make sense at all? The process, disparities, jail time at all in some cases?
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I think in many cases the process itself is a lot fairer than people think. Certainly, the disparities can be pretty ridiculous (especially with drugs where possession is a misdemeanor in many states and still a felony in others - and possession should absolutely only be a misdemeanor absent aggravating factors). Jail time with few exceptions is excessive IMO for possession cases. And then you'll see people go to jail, say, for a VOP on a marijuana positive urine in one county where in another county there would be little, if any, sanction imposed in another.

I've seen cases where someone may have multiple convictions for drug dealing but may never have served any jail time. Certainly, the strength of the case is a component of recommended sentence, and that can be a factor. Next thing you know you have someone facing mandatory time of 5 years or more when they have never previously served any time. That doesn't make sense.
 
wfumike02 said:
I think in many cases the process itself is a lot fairer than people think. Certainly, the disparities can be pretty ridiculous (especially with drugs where possession is a misdemeanor in many states and still a felony in others - and possession should absolutely only be a misdemeanor absent aggravating factors). Jail time with few exceptions is excessive IMO for possession cases. And then you'll see people go to jail, say, for a VOP on a marijuana positive urine in one county where in another county there would be little, if any, sanction imposed in another.

I've seen cases where someone may have multiple convictions for drug dealing but may never have served any jail time. Certainly, the strength of the case is a component of recommended sentence, and that can be a factor. Next thing you know you have someone facing mandatory time of 5 years or more when they have never previously served any time. That doesn't make sense.
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state to state thing i bet. i'd bet the state depends on the amount of privatized prison infastructure.
 
The state I was speaking of from experience has no privatized prisons. It's more from a motivation to only send people to jail as a last resort. So no jail for 1st and 2nd felonies, sometimes even the third. Then it reaches the point where there's a lengthy record. I can only wonder what kind of effect a short term jail sentence - maybe even just a weekend - might have in preventing future offenses. The system teaches them that there aren't really any consequences for so long and then there's a big swing.

Do you think 5 years is unreasonable for a 3-time convicted drug dealer (who's not simply dealing to support their own habit)?
 
No jail for first or second felonies? Is that the norm or is your state particularly lenient. I don't do a lot of work in criminal so I really have no idea, but with mandatory minimums I feel like most first time felonies result in prison time even in Mass.
 
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