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Dan Collins Article on Bz interview posted

PhDeac said:
Not only is that false, Wake has had a strong history of non-5 star players contributing significantly in their first years, including McKie. Kendall Marshall was a 4-star and Stoglin was 3-star and they joined 5-stars Barnes and Leslie as All-ACC.

Our freshman class was around the same level or above as plenty of players over the years who contributed as freshmen from guys like O'Kelley and JGray to Darius and Josh Howard to more recently Teague and Johnson.
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You're right aside from the fact that you're looking at a pair of freshman helping out versus four freshman getting major minutes. We had regular role players with a good deal of experience filling the gaps and covering up a lot of freshman mistakes. We didn't have that this year.
 
PhDeac said:
Not only is that false, Wake has had a strong history of non-5 star players contributing significantly in their first years, including McKie. Kendall Marshall was a 4-star and Stoglin was 3-star and they joined 5-stars Barnes and Leslie as All-ACC.

Our freshman class was around the same level or above as plenty of players over the years who contributed as freshmen from guys like O'Kelley and JGray to Darius and Josh Howard to more recently Teague and Johnson.
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Ph, I don't know if you missed the analysis that was posted on the old boards comparing our guys minutes/contributions to all the other 4 star recruits, but they were way up there in comparison.

A player like Travis is rare, you can't honestly expect every 4 star freshman to contribute at that level. Kendall had a very good frontcourt to work with and a great cast of 5 star McDonald's All Americans around him.
 
You can't expect EVERY 4-star player to contribute at a significant level, but to say you never see a non-5-star player contribute at that level is a huge exaggeration.
 
PhDeac said:
You can't expect EVERY 4-star player to contribute at a significant level, but to say you never see a non-5-star player contribute at that level is a huge exaggeration.
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I didn't say never, I said "very rarely". Which is true, and even more true when you look for guys that did it without any upperclassman or superstar players to fall back on.
 
It is also funny that Bzzz knows how hard it is to compete w/ the inexperience that we have but clings to Air Force whipping Wake Forest when it had Seniors Visser & Drum along with a bunch of freshman. That team still managed to win 15 games and 5 in the ACC, but for some reason Air Force beating them in November by a bunch is thrown back in our faces.
 
cookoutdeac said:
I didn't say never, I said "very rarely". Which is true, and even more true when you look for guys that did it without any upperclassman or superstar players to fall back on.
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Being able to contribute on a team with upperclassmen and superstars is part of being a freshman.
 
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that one Ph.

Look at all the 4 star freshman this year around the NCAA and tell me how many of them played the kind of minutes ours did (the ones that actually played) and were expected to carry their team/be go-to guys. There are very very few that did this. It's not realistic to expect 4 star guys to do this in their first years.
 
I don't know what's so confusing. Most freshmen play on teams with upperclassmen. Most freshmen are asked to contribute on teams with upperclassmen.
 
PhDeac said:
I don't know what's so confusing. Most freshmen play on teams with upperclassmen. Most freshmen are asked to contribute on teams with upperclassmen.
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right, and the point is... our freshman this year did not have experienced upperclassmen to play with. So, we shouldn't have expected them to carry the team.
 
BeachBum, this was cookout's original point.

cookoutdeac said:
It's just hard to tell how those freshman who had two promising years were going to look as anything but role players. CJ stepped up and played pretty well out of position, Ari did not.

As promising as our freshman class was, very rarely do you see non-5 star guys contributing significantly in their first years.
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I disagree. Even last year, CJ and Ari were significant contributors. College hoops is full of less heralded players who fill crucial roles on their teams as freshmen.
 
We didn't know that our roster was as poorly mismanaged in November as we do now, but looking back, it's pretty understandable why we were so terrible this season. Most freshman aren't good enough to carry a team. Our current freshman definitely weren't good enough to carry a team, and they proved that. CJ isn't a point guard, and TC is underwhelming at best. We have two 7 footers who couldn't get more than 5 rebounds between them, and our only player who could get a rebound is a 6'6 sf who was busy doing everything else.
 
Yeah, but what it comes down to is our team lost to the least experienced team in the country on our home court to open the season.
 
PhDeac said:
BeachBum, this was cookout's original point.



I disagree. Even last year, CJ and Ari were significant contributors. College hoops is full of less heralded players who fill crucial roles on their teams as freshmen.
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They are still role players. When I said contributing significantly, I meant that they were go-to guys and were relied upon to carry the team. You can't have a team full of young role players, that was my point.

Like I said, compare our guys numbers to the other 4 star guys around the NCAA this year. There are almost none that played the kind of minutes or had to do the kind of scoring we expected of ours.
 
PhDeac said:
Yeah, but what it comes down to is our team lost to the least experienced team in the country on our home court to open the season.
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That was a perfect storm of events. That least experienced team had a pretty similar class to ours (I'm referring to our freshman class) the year before iirc and at least had those 4 or 5 sophomores that came out and were confident and ready to go. Whereas our guys were mostly freshman who just weren't ready for the college game (and were probably extremely overconfident after our exhibition game against Guilford).
 
They were still the least experienced team in the country.
 
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