Dave Clawson Credibility Watch

[deacdixieboy]

I'm not much of a Twitterer tbf, but isn't everybody an asshole on Twitter? Isn't that the point?

Most people that rely on subscribers for a relatively small fanbase are not.

 

[Strickland33]

Most people that rely on subscribers for a relatively small fanbase are not.

Matt Yglesias disagrees with this post

 

[Mt. Olive]

I tried the 24/7 stuff and did not like the attitude so I cancelled my subscription. It wasn’t that hard but I did it months before it automatically renewed. I’m glad that others do like it and support it.

I still have not listened to the Ga Tech presser that Les referenced. I listened to others and I believe that we are spoiled cause Clawson and Forbes will bring stuff up without being prompted.

I have faith in Clawson but I also think he is not above some tough questions. He basically opened himself up Saturday evening to ask what has happened to this season and where did they go wrong?

I 100% recommend Essex.

 

[OblongPickle]

I am not sure how Griffis performed well in practice when he cannot scramble at all ever. Maybe the yellow don't hit the QB jersey masked his ineffectiveness.

There's no way he was just playing pitch and catch with our WR in practice. He can't do that at all, either.

The defense must have been pulling up 10 yards before they even got to him...that's the only excuse for him holding on the ball as long as he does and his ridiculous number of sacks per game.

Just to be clear, 77 seasons have passed since Wake's first bowl eligibility.

Here's the comprehensive list of bowl games prior to Clawson's tenure:

View attachment 6675

I'm definitely cherry picking, but Clawson's credibility is pretty damned high... since he's 1 bowl win (and, maybe, only 2 wins this season) away from doubling the number of trophies in our case.

Correct. I remember when I got to Wake, the then message boards and all around campus there were examples of everyone being SO excited about the Seattle Bowl victory...like it was a huge rare accomplishment to be 6-6 and win a bowl.

We then proceeded to go to 4 more bowls (winning 2) over the remainder of Grobe's 11 years coaching at Wake (11 years remaining, not 11 years total), going to only 1 in his final 5 years.

We've now gone to 7 straight bowls (winning 5) in Clawson's whole 9 year career at Wake Forest thus far, and albeit next to impossible, we still have the smallest of chances to make it 8 straight if the unthinkable happens next weekend (and of course the following week). Hell, I have no idea the bowl situations currently, but can't they technically take a 5-7 team? Although that may be negated by our last place finish in the conference. Or wait...if we beat Syracuse, and they lost to GT, we technically wouldn't finish last....actually there are 3 other 1-win ACC teams, so we could finish as high as 11th or maybe T-10th with Miami as they are 2-4 right now and play Louisville and BC. IDK, I don't know all the configurations, but you get my long and extensive point.

Clawson has taken this program to heights we've never been and thus his credibility is and should be "pretty damned high".

Great thing about Dave Clawson is that unlike other coaches he does not give defensive, dismissive or snarky replies to tough questions. He is an outlier compared to most college coaches and the way they typically respond to the least bit of perceived criticism within a question. Clawson listens, takes a deep breath and answers the dang question. If next year you asked him why should anyone expect anything different from this year, Dave Clawson would answer the question without regard to whether it sounded negative. Fire away. That man deals with "conflict" as a professional. On another note his apparent weariness has to do with this season rather than the entire landscape of college football imho. He's not a quitter.

Exactly.....you'll never hear a Dabo "You're part of the problem...If you wanna apply for the job, go for it. And good luck to you... To answer your question, I started as the lowest-paid coach in this business... I worked my ass off. I'm not gonna let this smart-ass kid get on the phone and tell me how to do my job. I work for the board of trustees." answer from DC. He's a professional and pretty level-headed guy, no matter the situation. Except on the sidelines, he seems to like having...."discussions" with the refs.

Yeah. This bothers me too. Clawson seems to put a lot more stock on knowledge of the playbook (which presumably favors Griffis) than the execution of whatever plays they use (which should have favored Marucci). To me, the reasonable step forward after Pitt would have been to build on momentum and spend the week adapting the playbook around Marucci.

THIS. THIS is what I don't get!? What good does it do if Griffis knows 50% more of the playbook than Marucci if those 50% of playcalls all he does is look one way, flip the fuck out, dance a jig and then grab the ball and lower his head and shoulders to take the sack?

If Marucci can take his limited playbook and actually RUN the plays (especially if Mitch can't even hand the damn ball off on a running play), then I don't see a difference in that and failing to do anything with the ball on all the plays Mitch knows that Marucci doesn't.

True!!!

Holy shit, what the fuck are these comments?!?! What kind of person calls a sexual abuse survivor a tramp? Regardless of the situation or who you believe in that case. A tramp? A lying, money seeking tramp? OMG whoever that is deserves to get shit on. Jesus that's rough. I don't care if someone is an adulterer, or has affairs with married coaches....you don't fucking call a sexual abuse victim a tramp. What a sick motherfucker....

I'll now be going back thru this thread and finding any post he made that I may have "liked" and changing my reactions. Fucking prick.

 

[WindyCityDeac]

The defense must have been pulling up 10 yards before they even got to him...that's the only excuse for him holding on the ball as long as he does and his ridiculous number of sacks per game.



Correct. I remember when I got to Wake, the then message boards and all around campus there were examples of everyone being SO excited about the Seattle Bowl victory...like it was a huge rare accomplishment to be 6-6 and win a bowl.

We then proceeded to go to 4 more bowls (winning 2) over the remainder of Grobe's 11 years coaching at Wake (11 years remaining, not 11 years total), going to only 1 in his final 5 years.

We've now gone to 7 straight bowls (winning 5) in Clawson's whole 9 year career at Wake Forest thus far, and albeit next to impossible, we still have the smallest of chances to make it 8 straight if the unthinkable happens next weekend (and of course the following week). Hell, I have no idea the bowl situations currently, but can't they technically take a 5-7 team? Although that may be negated by our last place finish in the conference. Or wait...if we beat Syracuse, and they lost to GT, we technically wouldn't finish last....actually there are 3 other 1-win ACC teams, so we could finish as high as 11th or maybe T-10th with Miami as they are 2-4 right now and play Louisville and BC. IDK, I don't know all the configurations, but you get my long and extensive point.

Clawson has taken this program to heights we've never been and thus his credibility is and should be "pretty damned high".



Exactly.....you'll never hear a Dabo "You're part of the problem...If you wanna apply for the job, go for it. And good luck to you... To answer your question, I started as the lowest-paid coach in this business... I worked my ass off. I'm not gonna let this smart-ass kid get on the phone and tell me how to do my job. I work for the board of trustees." answer from DC. He's a professional and pretty level-headed guy, no matter the situation. Except on the sidelines, he seems to like having...."discussions" with the refs.



THIS. THIS is what I don't get!? What good does it do if Griffis knows 50% more of the playbook than Marucci if those 50% of playcalls all he does is look one way, flip the fuck out, dance a jig and then grab the ball and lower his head and shoulders to take the sack?

If Marucci can take his limited playbook and actually RUN the plays (especially if Mitch can't even hand the damn ball off on a running play), then I don't see a difference in that and failing to do anything with the ball on all the plays Mitch knows that Marucci doesn't.



Holy shit, what the fuck are these comments?!?! What kind of person calls a sexual abuse survivor a tramp? Regardless of the situation or who you believe in that case. A tramp? A lying, money seeking tramp? OMG whoever that is deserves to get shit on. Jesus that's rough. I don't care if someone is an adulterer, or has affairs with married coaches....you don't fucking call a sexual abuse victim a tramp. What a sick motherfucker....

I'll now be going back thru this thread and finding any post he made that I may have "liked" and changing my reactions. Fucking prick.

Check the rest of his posts…. More of the same. Disgusting

 

[TheAbster]

I tried the 24/7 stuff and did not like the attitude so I cancelled my subscription.

I was banned for 24 hours by simply asking in a post how I could proceed with cancelling my subscription. No expletives. No insults. Just a simple question.

The reason I canceled is I asked how could they possibly have missed so badly on Griffis and why the continued "cheerleading". "Cheerleading" sent them over the edge. I was told I didn't know what I was talking about. Welp, here we are! None of them are bad people and there's no conspiracy but I think the phrase "thin skinned" might apply. That's tough to overcome when running basically anything on the Internet.

 

[jb75]

the reason Conor gets treated with respect on these boards is because he isn't condescending. I can't fathom Conor posting drivel like Les just did about being a virtual punching bag. just go back to the crap board and keep asking your softball questions

 

[WFU8184]

The defense must have been pulling up 10 yards before they even got to him...that's the only excuse for him holding on the ball as long as he does and his ridiculous number of sacks per game.



Correct. I remember when I got to Wake, the then message boards and all around campus there were examples of everyone being SO excited about the Seattle Bowl victory...like it was a huge rare accomplishment to be 6-6 and win a bowl.

We then proceeded to go to 4 more bowls (winning 2) over the remainder of Grobe's 11 years coaching at Wake (11 years remaining, not 11 years total), going to only 1 in his final 5 years.

We've now gone to 7 straight bowls (winning 5) in Clawson's whole 9 year career at Wake Forest thus far, and albeit next to impossible, we still have the smallest of chances to make it 8 straight if the unthinkable happens next weekend (and of course the following week). Hell, I have no idea the bowl situations currently, but can't they technically take a 5-7 team? Although that may be negated by our last place finish in the conference. Or wait...if we beat Syracuse, and they lost to GT, we technically wouldn't finish last....actually there are 3 other 1-win ACC teams, so we could finish as high as 11th or maybe T-10th with Miami as they are 2-4 right now and play Louisville and BC. IDK, I don't know all the configurations, but you get my long and extensive point.

Clawson has taken this program to heights we've never been and thus his credibility is and should be "pretty damned high".



Exactly.....you'll never hear a Dabo "You're part of the problem...If you wanna apply for the job, go for it. And good luck to you... To answer your question, I started as the lowest-paid coach in this business... I worked my ass off. I'm not gonna let this smart-ass kid get on the phone and tell me how to do my job. I work for the board of trustees." answer from DC. He's a professional and pretty level-headed guy, no matter the situation. Except on the sidelines, he seems to like having...."discussions" with the refs.



THIS. THIS is what I don't get!? What good does it do if Griffis knows 50% more of the playbook than Marucci if those 50% of playcalls all he does is look one way, flip the fuck out, dance a jig and then grab the ball and lower his head and shoulders to take the sack?

If Marucci can take his limited playbook and actually RUN the plays (especially if Mitch can't even hand the damn ball off on a running play), then I don't see a difference in that and failing to do anything with the ball on all the plays Mitch knows that Marucci doesn't.



Holy shit, what the fuck are these comments?!?! What kind of person calls a sexual abuse survivor a tramp? Regardless of the situation or who you believe in that case. A tramp? A lying, money seeking tramp? OMG whoever that is deserves to get shit on. Jesus that's rough. I don't care if someone is an adulterer, or has affairs with married coaches....you don't fucking call a sexual abuse victim a tramp. What a sick motherfucker....

I'll now be going back thru this thread and finding any post he made that I may have "liked" and changing my reactions. Fucking prick.

She fucked a married coach (Damon Stoudamire) and talked extensively about getting money from the MSU coach after he cut off communication with her. She talked with him late at night over 30 times for more than a half an hour. Even if you believe her dubious story that she listened to him rub one off without hanging up for 30 minutes, the most he did to her was phone sex. That’s not sexual harrassment. She wasn’t his employee or an employee of MSU. I don’t get that most everyone supports her in this claim. Yeah, he embarrassed the university and used horrible judgment and probably deserved to be fired under the language of the contract. But there has been no lawsuit or discovery in this case, so all we have are her allegations, certain admissions by him and her damning cell phone texts and call history. Let the facts come out before defending this lady with such dubious credibility.

 

[WFU8184]

Check the rest of his posts…. More of the same. Disgusting

You weak POS

 

[awakegirl]

She fucked a married coach (Damon Stoudamire) and talked extensively about getting money from the MSU coach after he cut off communication with her. She talked with him late at night over 30 times for more than a half an hour. Even if you believe her dubious story that she listened to him rub one off without hanging up for 30 minutes, the most he did to her was phone sex. That’s not sexual harrassment. She wasn’t his employee or an employee of MSU. I don’t get that most everyone supports her in this claim. Yeah, he embarrassed the university and used horrible judgment and probably deserved to be fired under the language of the contract. But there has been no lawsuit or discovery in this case, so all we have are her allegations, certain admissions by him and her damning cell phone texts and call history. Let the facts come out before defending this lady with such dubious credibility.

Dude. I’ve tried to stay away from this as one of the token women on the board, but are you really doubling down on this??

 

[WindyCityDeac]

She fucked a married coach (Damon Stoudamire) and talked extensively about getting money from the MSU coach after he cut off communication with her. She talked with him late at night over 30 times for more than a half an hour. Even if you believe her dubious story that she listened to him rub one off without hanging up for 30 minutes, the most he did to her was phone sex. That’s not sexual harrassment. She wasn’t his employee or an employee of MSU. I don’t get that most everyone supports her in this claim. Yeah, he embarrassed the university and used horrible judgment and probably deserved to be fired under the language of the contract. But there has been no lawsuit or discovery in this case, so all we have are her allegations, certain admissions by him and her damning cell phone texts and call history. Let the facts come out before defending this lady with such dubious credibility.

You continue to shame a rape victim. You use a burner account. You went to a tier 3 law school
Go away. You are reviled. Read the room. Go to rape shame groups or whatever your people do. But leave these boards

 

[WindyCityDeac]

You weak POS

PERSONAL ATTACKS!!!!

 

[Wakelaw2006]

Dude. I’ve tried to stay away from this as one of the token women on the board, but are you really doubling down on this??

For real. It is really telling that of all the hills to die on, this is the one 22/8184 chooses.

 

[TheAbster]

Did the parking lot brawl and gin sampling ever occur? I was willing to wager good money. That now has my interest given the "watchability" of our football program.

 

[WindyCityDeac]

I actually like a post from The Abster
What a world indeed.
😊

 

[Strattocaster]

A couple of things.

Yes, you asked those questions. Also, yes, I agree with Cam that berating (or even close) Clawson at some press conference is not going to get the results some seek. People get emotionally twisted about WFU sports because we have been tortured by it for decades. It's inevitable and comes with the territory.

Yes, I hate the subscription model you guys (I assume are forced to) use, and hope that approach to customer relations dies an agonizing death so it can be replaced with something from this century***. But that is not your doing, and I am grateful you guys cover WFU sports. I think you do a good job on the press conference questions (which is all I can see or hear).

Having said all of that, I cannot imagine starting a communication with my current and prospective customers with that sentence.

*** I wish you and Connor would team up, leave those shitty networks behind and do a Patreon thing. I have to believe there are people who'd pay more for good, targeted, cancellable content. MacMost is probably my favorite content provider (if you are an Apple person, it's a must-read), and he does it via Patreon.

But is he really responding to prospective or current customers here? I am a member of his site and have never seen him be condescending to anyone. The critiques on here seem to be from people that would never pay for his site and/or the typical folks on who get their jollies from being absolute assholes to everyone.

Les has a right to defend himself when bullied on the internet. I have zero issues with him responding to some of these twats that way. Some of them absolutely deserve it. When you pay for a service, you have the right to that service. You don’t have the right to openly berate the creators of the content.

 

[PhDeac]

This isn't the Les Johns Credibility Thread, folks.

Good article by Tony Siracusa laying the blame squarely on Clawson. This guy has been covering the Deacs for a few months and isn't afraid to say what needs to be said.

Wake’s 2023 Debacle Falls on Clawson

Wake’s 2023 Debacle Falls on Clawson; A transitional season is on the brink of becoming a lost season for the Demon Deacons

lastwordonsports.com

And of course, the headline change was the change at quarterback. The challenge was not replacing Sam Hartman’s stats. Yes, he is the all-time leading touchdown passer in ACC history. But as a 58% career passer in his time at Wake Forest, it wasn’t about the numbers. It was about replacing someone who knew how to run the offense. Since Mitch Griffis was going into his fourth year as a backup quarterback, it should be an obvious transition. With hundreds of practices under his belt over the years he should have been ready to step in.

And perhaps therein lies part of Clawson’s challenge. He isn’t comfortable with all of his patio furniture. In this part of the country, it has been repeated as often as a Knute Rockne halftime speech. Because Wake is not going to get five-star recruits in the same numbers as other schools, it is about developing the three-star players for the coach’s system, and in three or four years they are ready. The reasons Wake does not compete at those recruiting levels for football are often stated, legitimate and need not take up more space here. It is about doing better with what you do have as opposed to lamenting over what you cannot get.



Maybe that process needs to be benched alongside a few players. Clawson openly likes to keep as many young players set aside as possible, so as to play them in November, get them some game reps, and not burn their redshirt year. It’s part of the stockpiling theory. But how much longer can it work when the younger players, with their saved eligibility, see players ahead of them not able to execute the same playbook?

Young and Restless​

Clawson said after the game Saturday that the receivers had chances to make contested catches, “And I don’t think we made one of them, other than Deuce for the touchdown.” And there it is. An answer, one answer, was there all along. More Deuce Alexander and less of the more heralded guys in front of him. Wake has an extensive history of talent at receiver over the years. That includes this year even with the significant loss of Donavon Greene. But as John Wooden used to routinely say back in the ‘60s, “Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.”


Perhaps the time to take the training wheels off some of the younger guys was well before you lost three games in a row for the second time this season. Could it have been any worse than the product out there now? At least you could have said, “Hey the young guys are putting in the work and the effort and will us get there.” As opposed to scratching your collective heads about how a bunch of third-, fourth–, and fifth-year players can’t execute the offense, and the defense is crumbling under late-in-the-season pressure.

​

Clawson said Saturday that some of the veteran players, “Are not in a good place,” when asked about whether they had mentally and emotionally checked out. There is plenty of space available on the Wake sidelines next to the coaches, and plenty of younger, more eager players ready to go. But that is a call Clawson has to make.


He has said over recent weeks that they asked too much of Griffis, and the quarterback room, to run what Hartman did. Maybe. But then why did it take three-fourths of the season to come to that conclusion? He and offensive coordinator Wayne Ruggiero should have been at this stage after week two. This was not a situation where tinkering was needed. A major overhaul was in order to create an offense the available talent could run.

Wake is 4-6. The record is a mirage. Take out wins against an FCS school and an SEC bottom feeder and you are legitimately 2-8. The Deacs need two wins in the last two games to become cleanly bowl-eligible. They won’t get there. They can get to a bowl with a 5-7 record and their high APR status. All coaches tout the benefit of having extra practice for everyone. That depends on how you spend the practice. Fifty-plus practices since August have not exactly gotten you good results or proper analysis. If it had, there would not have been a need for an introspection weekend.

 

[OblongPickle]

She fucked a married coach (Damon Stoudamire) and talked extensively about getting money from the MSU coach after he cut off communication with her. She talked with him late at night over 30 times for more than a half an hour. Even if you believe her dubious story that she listened to him rub one off without hanging up for 30 minutes, the most he did to her was phone sex. That’s not sexual harrassment. She wasn’t his employee or an employee of MSU. I don’t get that most everyone supports her in this claim. Yeah, he embarrassed the university and used horrible judgment and probably deserved to be fired under the language of the contract. But there has been no lawsuit or discovery in this case, so all we have are her allegations, certain admissions by him and her damning cell phone texts and call history. Let the facts come out before defending this lady with such dubious credibility.

I really do not want to get this thread derailed from the more important pro/anti Coach Clawson and/or Les/Cam stuff.....because this discussion does not belong on this thread....but I will say one thing as a relative of multiple women who have been sexually assaulted and/or harassed in their lives.

If it was UNWANTED, that absolutely IS sexually harassment. Regardless of how long she stayed on the phone or any of that mess. You're a misogynistic ignorant asshole if you think it's not harassment because it's "just phone sex". [EDIT: Clearly you know that based on your statement. You said what he "did to her"...not "with her". How about that fact, jerk?]

She WAS a vendor brought on by the university for a talk with the football team multiple times, ergo was a temporary representative and employee of the University.

Your fucking sickening and disgusting justification of calling a sexual abuse survivor (she had been sexually abused previously in her life) because she had an affair with some other person at one point in her life has ABSOLUTELY no fucking bearing on anything regarding Mel Tucker and is frankly one of the most disgusting things I've heard on these boards.

Even if you disagree with her case or the details of the investigation or want "all the facts to come out", calling her a tramp and money seeking liar is just....there are no words. You need to take a serious look at why this issue has led to you being such a derogatory asshat to someone you do not know, especially regarding the alleged facts of the case.

I'm truly sorry if your girlfriend or wife cheated on you. (actually, scratch that, you don't deserve the love of a woman...or man...or anyone.), but your "message" and method of delivery are completely unnecessary and a complete embarrassment to these message boards.... I honestly think it's ban-worthy, and I don't see how that hasn't occured at this point. To think what other fans of other teams/schools/etc think of us if we allow this shit to happen on here makes me really sad.

 

[OblongPickle]

This isn't the Les Johns Credibility Thread, folks.

Good article by Tony Siracusa laying the blame squarely on Clawson. This guy has been covering the Deacs for a few months and isn't afraid to say what needs to be said.

Wake’s 2023 Debacle Falls on Clawson

Wake’s 2023 Debacle Falls on Clawson; A transitional season is on the brink of becoming a lost season for the Demon Deacons

lastwordonsports.com

This is pretty damn-near spot on!

I've been wondering all season what the 2nd and 3rd string guys that came to Wake because they thought they could compete feel like seeing some of the "effort" that has been put on the field. I know I'd get a little sick and tired of it. If the 1st Team Defense is getting pissed off at the Offense/QB, you know the backups must be. They feel like THEY could be doing better than what's currently being done. And maybe they could.

We may never know if they all transfer away. But hopefully it instills even more drive in them to be the ones to prove they belong on the field beyond a shadow of a doubt. To make the coaches take a second look and feel like there's no way they shouldn't play.

But again, that should have been happening 4 games ago, if not sooner. Now there's no real reason to play them if they can redshirt.

We'll see.

But I still believe in Dave Clawson.

 

[PhDeac]

Clawson sent a message by sticking with Griffis that on-field performance doesn't matter as much as tenure and practice.