Ditch the 3-4

[PhDeac]

How about we run both. 4 DL in obvious running situations, 3 DL in obvious passing situations. You know, like teams with competent coaching staffs do. The whole "base defense" thing is overrated in college when you have 85 kids on scholarships.

I think our staff was trying to do that with Wilber at OLB.

 

[DeaconSig]

I usually agree with most everything you say but the speed comments are off imo.

Jackson and Mike don't have elite speed? I just reviewed the season and was most impressed with how fast Mike got to the ball and with bad intent. He takes crappy angles at times (less and less as he improved thru the year)but he's a damn fast inside linebacker. I'd say he's a 4.75 guy with a 37" vertical and a great frame - He will be a 6'3-245 Ohio State styled LB by the time he graduates.

Justin is a 4.5 kid with more speed in those wheels. He's built like a younger Nate Irving and I look forward to another off-season of iron for that guy.

Ziggy Allen is 6'2 and 235 and is clearly a faster athlete than Aaron Curry -- just look at his camp highlights from Nike Oregon where he matched Nukeese Richardson touchdown for touchdown as a WR. Zachary is a little more raw than I expected and has some serious S&C work ahead of him but that guy is an elite prospect (with this staff coaching him).

Duran Lowe is the modern Deac equivalent of Caron Bracy (better build) and a former star RB who can swing to OLB in a pinch if we go "Auburn style". 5'11 and 215 he made multiple recovery plays where he matched opposition WR's.

Josh Hunt and Andre Wiggins enter the mix as young LB's both around 6'2 and 225 who can run in the 4.55-4.65 range.

I should have probably better clarified my original post. I think Jackson and Olsen have speed (not sure about elite yet). I don't think either one play "fast" at this time, because they aren't always going in the right direction. I think they will play faster as they get more experience (and as Jackson gets farther away from surgery). Allen is certainly supposed to be a physical freak, but I didn't see enough of him on the field this year to see how that translates to production. He is another guy I am counting on to make plays next year. I can't speak for Hunt and Wiggins, but I trust your reports. I wasn't considering them because I was thinking about guys on the field this year.

Lowe is plenty fast, but he is in the secondary, not front 7. :thumbsup:

Basically, I think Dorty, Thompson, Betros, Haynes, and Ehrmann all played very slow this year. I just didn't see much in the way of explosive plays from any of them.

On a tangent, we must, and I mean MUST, come up with better blitz schemes next year. If it means bringing Lowe/Mack/Okoro/Cooper more, moving Allen and Jackson around, or doing a better job of zone blitz schemes, we absolutely cannot continue to be as ineffective at rushing the passer as we have been the past several years. And I don't see anybody on the team right now who is a born pass rusher. Maybe Floyd or Offor turn into that guy, but I don't see anybody like that right now. For all the trouble we have against the run, we could chop 3-7 points a game off of our total if we could just get to the middle of the pack nationally in sacks.

 

[tau06]

Go back to the 2nd half of the FSU game. We basically ran a 4-3 that game. Whitlock and Wilbur pinned their ears back and went all out at the QB and it worked well. I don't know why we went away from that.

Spot on, that is exactly what WF needs to do. The pass rush that game was amazing.

 

[TownieDeac]

3-3-5

This. Just run nickel house blitzes all day.

 

[AsheboroDeacon]

Speed is probably the one thing we do have sufficiently on defense (offense, too). We're far more lacking in size and overall skill.

what we are really lacking is elite SCHEME

 

[RacerDeac]

what we are really lacking is elite SCHEME

Agreed. Our coaches excel at coaching players up in practice and creating a team out of less heralded players (maybe the best in the country), but our game-day coaching and scheme is lacking IMO.

 

[P4nthers11]

Well, it is a tough one because we have lots of numbers at LB.

The problem, in my eyes, is how do you keep Sheldon Lewinson off the field?

In a 4-3 you would have:

DE Zach Thompson 6'5-270 RS JR

DT Sheldon Lewinson 6'2.5 - 270 Rookie
DT Nikita Whitlock 5'9.5 - 270 RS JR

DE Kris Redding 6'4-270 RS JR

OLB Zachary Allen 6'2-242 RS Soph
MLB Mike Olson 6'3.5-240 RS JR
OLB Justin Jackson 6'1-230 RS JR

This is essentially what I think would be our best line-up. Thompson and Redding are both stout and rangy enough to not only hold the line but pressure the QB and bat balls down. Line Nikita up over the Center and let him wreak absolute havoc all game. With a DT next to him there won't be a gaping hole if Nikita is caught penetrating away from where the play is going.

I want to make it clear that my distaste for the 3-4 is by no means a reflection of Nikita. I wish more people could see him in the weight room. The kid is strong, fast, and has a positive attitude. Lets utilize him in the best way possible.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

Yeah. I was calling for the 3-4 when we had Boo in the middle. We switched over to it too late and without the proper personnel.

 

[Dekin]

Well, it is a tough one because we have lots of numbers at LB.

The problem, in my eyes, is how do you keep Sheldon Lewinson off the field?

In a 4-3 you would have:

DE Zach Thompson 6'5-270 RS JR

DT Sheldon Lewinson 6'2.5 - 270 Rookie
DT Nikita Whitlock 5'9.5 - 270 RS JR

DE Kris Redding 6'4-270 RS JR

OLB Zachary Allen 6'2-242 RS Soph
MLB Mike Olson 6'3.5-240 RS JR
OLB Justin Jackson 6'1-230 RS JR

Interesting coincidence that all 4 DL's mentioned here are 270 (I know this is 'anticipated since I don't think any of them are there yet).
If it does turn out this way, we'll actually have big DE's, but still small DT's.

 

[Lectro]

Interesting coincidence that all 4 DL's mentioned here are 270 (I know this is 'anticipated since I don't think any of them are there yet).
If it does turn out this way, we'll actually have big DE's, but still small DT's.

True, I projected them. Each guy is about 10 pounds shy of 270 as it stands today.

 

[Lectro]

I can see where the scheme appears lacking but I'd also consider it the first season of the dual DC. I tend to be a 1/2 full type so I look out and see Billings and Knorr as 2 of the more driven guys you'll meet and that these guys are going to tweak and improve their planning. I also believe that their aggressiveness will be there as they are able to depend on guys like Olson, Jackson, Allen, Lowe, Mack, Noel etc., -- you gotta think they'll feel better in 2012 having Sophs and Jrs blitzing and being able to trust these guys and their reads.

As Deaconsig said earlier these guys like Olson are not always running to the ball or they are over-committing a gap -- but you have to believe that as these guys grow into ballplayers that the trust to freelance within the scheme will develop. Now that sounds great but take Alphonso Smith in his sophomore season. Phonz was given extra lattitude but got sloppy by his own account. He'd over- commit and end up trying to command a larger part of the field than his ability warranted. Then in the following season Smith returned to playing savvy football and let the game come to him. He cherry picked big plays by playing sound defense within a scheme. He knew when to take a chance and that's something that only comes when players mature IMO.



This past season was the 1st full year working in a new base scheme with 2 new coordinators and a bunch of pretty green players. So, "Bend Dont Break" might be wise as you build it...then you add on as the understanding and trust comes around.

 

[DirkTheDeac]

I hope Grobe is reading this thread. Because that guy knows shit about football.

 

[80deac]

Just noting the 3-4 and pass rush. We always allowed our biggest pass plays in this formation...and usually lost when the game was on the line....(see Clemson)