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George Zimmerman

You just admitted you invented your biased of Trayvon and that there is zero evidence of anything you allege happening that night.

This is as opposed to Zimmerman disobeying the 911 operator.

This as opposed to Zimmerman disobeying the rules of the neighborhood watch by being armed.

This is opposed to Zimmerman lying on Hannity in saying he knew nothing about stand your ground.

This is opposed to Zimmerman changing his story multiple times.

This is opposed to Zimmerman saying "they always get away with it" and getting out of the car.
 
Lectro said:
Nope...everyone decided they knew the "depraved mind of the stalker", George Zimmerman. They dissected his background and scoured the earth to find some smoking gun as to the origin of his "hatred" of blacks.

They couldn't really find anything.

So, I decided to have a look at Trayvon's past and so I set aside my pocket pic of him as a twelve year old and it was not long before I saw a very different person. The picture of innocence was broken when I saw his school record, the expulsions, the dismissal from home by his mom, his online pictures of street fighting, multiple references to using "the lean" (purple juice, essentially), the pic of his handgun, his texts including his cousin's which told of Trayvon swinging at a bus driver... and it goes on and on.

You give a damn what color he is...I don't. If he were one of the many multiple thousands of white punks then I'd be doing the same. Speaking truth.
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You keep saying I care that he's black. I don't. I'm sure Zimmerman profiles him as a possible crook based, in part, on his race. Bu that's got nothing to do with whether he was justified in shooting him.

Your continued focus on the racial implications of this case is strange, especially because very few here seem to be discussing it.
 
Ball State Deac said:
"he got out of the car to ask the guy"

That's confronting someone.
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No it isn't...not if you live in a community as victimized as that one. No sir, that's exactly what I want a neighborhood watchman to do.

Neighbors called police 472 times in the year and 1/2 preceding the incident. That is the primary reason the citizens of that neighborhood asked George to look out for their homes.
 
Ball State Deac said:
You keep saying I care that he's black. I don't. I'm sure Zimmerman profiles him as a possible crook based, in part, on his race. Bu that's got nothing to do with whether he was justified in shooting him.

Your continued focus on the racial implications of this case is strange, especially because very few here seem to be discussing it.
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You must be out of your fucking mind. I guess you missed Eric Dyson's rant on MSNBC

This case is nothing but RACE. Wake up kid
 
Lectro said:
No it isn't...not if you live in a community as victimized as that one. No sir, that's exactly what I want a neighborhood watchman to do.

Neighbors called police 472 times in the year and 1/2 preceding the incident. That is the primary reason the citizens of that neighborhood asked George to look out for their homes.
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Right, they confront someone. That term does no mean the same thing as "aggressor" but one could infer that Zimmerman was the aggressor.
 
Lectro said:
No it isn't...not if you live in a community as victimized as that one. No sir, that's exactly what I want a neighborhood watchman to do.

Neighbors called police 472 times in the year and 1/2 preceding the incident. That is the primary reason the citizens of that neighborhood asked George to look out for their homes.
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And he totally disobeyed multiple neighborhood watch rules and the police that night.

Zimmerman lied to the police.

Zimmerman lied to the American public.

None of this matters to you as you invent justifications for hunting down and killing Trayvon so he "doesn't get away with it".
 
Lectro said:
Whatever... Where are you watching the live feeds and getting the news on the case... Oh yea, the OGB boards...wtfk was I thinking?
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I said people aren't discussing it here. You disagreed and said people are discussing it on MSNBC. The boards are not MSNBC. There shouldn't have been confusion on this fact.
 
Wish this board had a feature where I could filter out the posts that add nothing to the discussion (other than ignore poster).
 
RJKarl said:
You just admitted you invented your biased of Trayvon and that there is zero evidence of anything you allege happening that night.

This is as opposed to Zimmerman disobeying the 911 operator.

This as opposed to Zimmerman disobeying the rules of the neighborhood watch by being armed.

This is opposed to Zimmerman lying on Hannity in saying he knew nothing about stand your ground.

This is opposed to Zimmerman changing his story multiple times.

This is opposed to Zimmerman saying "they always get away with it" and getting out of the car.
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Captain Horseshit to the rescue!
 
Each one of those lines is unquestioned and corroborated fact. There are audio and/or visual tapes of each. No one with any brain can dispute them.
 
There were only two people who knew exactly what happened that night and neither testified under oath and faced a rigorous cross examination during the trial. The trial is polarizing and the dividing lines are guns, profiling, and race. Unfortunately lots of people are making definitive statements about exactly what happened when they have no clue what happened. I tend to believe Zimmerman profiled Trayvon, probably was abrasive and aggressive when he confronted Trayvon, but that Trayvon probably threw the first punch. That's all purely conjecture on my part, but I doubt Zimmerman threw the first punch since he had a gun.

I freely admit that I think 300K guns is too many in this country and that I'm no fan of profiling. Also bothers me that GZ gave an interview to Hannity that served as proxy testimony, and it's pretty clear he lied at least twice (knowledge of stand your ground and not knowing one of three streets in a neighborhood where he lived for 2 years and called the cops dozens of times).

This board is relatively tame and there aren't people calling GZ a hero, but sadly there are places in America where that is happening. Guns, like abortion, is a polarizing issue, but I kinda thought there was broad agreement across the divide that gun deaths and abortions should be minimized as much as possible.
 
Which one is wrong?

The 911 operator DID tell him not to get out of the car and he did.

Neighborhood Watch explicitly ban carrying a weapon. They also state you must follow the instructions of 911 operators and/or police instructions- He didn't.

It is absolutely true that Zimmerman did lie on Hannity about "stand your ground" as was proven by his professor's testimony.

The police entered the video and notated stories that Zimmerman told. The story did change.

The 911 tape on which Zimmerman said "they always get away it" was played in open court and entered into evidence.

The only thing horseshit about any this is your insane refusal to acknowledge facts.
 
There's clearly a racial element to this. I don't see too many facebook posts from my white friends about this case, but I see a ton of #prayforTrayvon #justiceforTrayvon from my black friends (small sample size, I know). Broadening the horizon beyond my clearly small sample size, you look at who is deeply troubled by this case and who doesn't think it's a big issue. Most conservatives and gun toters don't think this case is that big a deal other than an unfortunate occurrence. Many of these same people are the ones you see decrying the fact that race is a huge issue (read: Fox News). On the other hand MSNBC and the people generally to be aligned on the far left think that this is a proxy on where we are with race relations in this country, as if a not-guilty verdict means the justice system has utterly failed every person of color.

I think the answer is clearly somewhere in the middle here. The case is about race insofar as Zimmerman probably wouldn't have gotten out of his car and followed Martin if he hadn't been black, but beyond that I've seen very little to indicate that this is anything about race aside from that. If Zimmerman is convicted or not convicted, I don't think that race has much of anything to do with that. I do think that it has increased the fallout and media coverage. If this had been a Hispanic shooting a Hispanic, a black guy shooting a black guy, or a white guy shooting a white guy then CNN and MSNBC wouldn't be falling all over themselves to cover this. The media coverage of this has been absolutely ridiculous and out of control. It's completely unnecessary and it has riled up a lot of emotions from people who aren't looking at the facts logically, but rather through a subjective lens which fits their particular world view.

The facts are ambiguous as to what happened and in my opinion that alone is enough to move second degree murder off the table. I think the jury may come out with a manslaughter conviction, but I think that if I were on the jury I would be pretty solidly in the not guilty category. I don't think he's innocent and I think Zimmerman is to blame for this situation, but that doesn't make him a murderer and under the law as it is written I do not believe he is guilty of any of the charges that have been brought against him.
 
bobknightfan said:
There's nothing racial where my position is concerned. I thought OJ was guilty as hell, too....and that was a black man killing two unarmed white people. My position is pretty simple: There should be a price to pay when an armed person seeks out an unarmed person and kills them. No matter who "threw the first punch", Zimmerman clearly instigated the entire situation (violating all standard procedure, as RJ has correctly pointed out several times)....then used illegal unnecessary force once the confrontation that he desired began. That's manslaughter, at the very least.
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So you have a problem with the way the law is written?

Because currently as has been stated, it does matter who threw the first punch and the term "illegal unnecessary force" is only true if the jury believes that Zimmerman didn't reasonably believe that his life was in danger.
 
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