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Goodbye Wake, Hello William & Mary

I'm curious - did it just not work out for him at Wake. Bonus for you on the cash, and I'd have pretty much the same mindset, just interested in junior's experience at MSD.

I talked to a frosh today who is transferring because he wants to major in music and the WFU music major isn't that strong.

I resemble this remark.

But I'm also a fucking legend now because I did that shit. Two friends were at a bar randomly talking to two undergrads in the Music Department over thanksgiving break last week and they KNEW who I was. Like, didn't know me, just knew OF me. I mean, if that isn't worth 65k, I don't know what is. I graduated 13 years ago and my cache is still that strong.
 
Doesn't UNCG have a strong music program?

Yep.

I saved a fortune by doing undergrad at UNCG and graduate school at Wake. The yearly tuition at UNCG was $6,000 per year, and I had plenty of opportunities because of how big the school is. When I got to grad school, most of the kids were from places like Wake, Duke and even Ivy Leagues. I didn't feel any less prepared than they were, and one of my fraternity brothers who did a different WFU program had the same experience. I love Wake, but a quarter of a million dollars for a BA just is not worth it.
 
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Here's how the game works today - Schools like Wake dole out about 95% of financial aid based on need. The FA office told me only 5% of students get funding based on merit only.
So a parent with a relatively high income isn't going to get squat.
To be continued
 
Let's say there are 4 kids, each with the same qualifications. Here's how the monies would be distributed by family income:
1. High Income family would pay $60k (no financial aid)
2. Middle Income family would pay $35k
3. Lower-middle family income would pay $15-25k
4. Low income family would pay next-to-nothing.
For this discussion, assume the "actual" cost to educate a kid at Wake Forest is $40k. Parents of student 1 are basically subsidizing students 3 and 4. Wake loves high income families, as the whole model would break down without them.
Unless a student from a high-income family is in the very top 1/10th of 1% (and Wake is competing for Harvard for the kid), that student isn't going to get any money based solely on merit. As I mentioned, less than 5% of financial aid at Wake is based solely on merit. The college FA and merit scholarship people directly told me this. So about 50 of the 1,000 students in a WFU class are benefitting from scholarship money based only on their accomplishments. There are plenty of other qualified kids on a waiting list who will take your kids place if you don't like this system. I told folks at the college that my son will probably be leaving, and they basically said "nice knowing you".
So here's what happens - Student 1 from the above example can either pay the full price at Wake or pay substantially less at a top public university. Also, Student 1 might be attractive to a lesser-prestigious private college. Roanoke College would probably offer Student 1 some merit funding, as Student 1 far exceeds their criteria. So here are the choices:
Wake $60k
William & Mary $30k
Roanoke College $30k
Unfortunately, in reality, the process is even less fair. Student 1 could be a far better candidate than students 2-4, and the same process would take place.
This experience has made me very cynical. Private colleges such as Wake are a business, and they primarily care about your money. And there is no effort to try to minimize cost. How many assistant and associate deans does the college really need? I don't care how much money you make - $65k is a lot of money and its not a good deal.
Good luck to those of you out there with higher income and younger kids, who think that their kid is going to have money thrown at him or her because he or she is smart and gets good grades.
 
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W&M was actually my first choice when I was looking at colleges. Didn't get early decision and went to Wake instead. Yay me.
 
I resemble this remark.

But I'm also a fucking legend now because I did that shit. Two friends were at a bar randomly talking to two undergrads in the Music Department over thanksgiving break last week and they KNEW who I was. Like, didn't know me, just knew OF me. I mean, if that isn't worth 65k, I don't know what is. I graduated 13 years ago and my cache is still that strong.

I mean, you WERE (and maybe still are?) one of the top 10 under-40 Viola De Gamba players in the United States, if not the world. In addition to being an American Hero, everyone, El Chupe is also a genius on the viola de gamba. True story.
 
The first question I get asked is where I went to law school. I went to a very small school for undergrad that is not nearly as prestigious as Wake. But I had a serious scholly and knew I was going to law school. I am very happy with how it worked out. And FWIW, I had a great four years at my undergrad, and graduated in the top quarter of my law school class at Wake, ahead of a lot of kids from bigger name schools.
 
Yeah, people who take risks and start businesses and who have to worry about paying their employees and bills have it real easy

Probably easier than people who have a lot less money and still have to worry about paying their bills
 
So true. Maybe we should route all the financial aid to insanely rich people.

That's purposely inflammatory. I imagine (maybe naively) that most folks who struggle with these types of decisions are solidly middle/upper middle class. Insanely rich people don't particularly care about the cost. I definitely went to school with kids of CEO's etc. A quarter million for college is no biggie. But I grew up middle to upper middle class and with three siblings my parents struggled to send us all through college. We fell in the just "rich" enough to not get much of any aid but just "poor" enough to make it a struggle. A lot of my friends at Wake were in similar situations. Your point is a straw man for effect and you know it.
 
That's purposely inflammatory. I imagine (maybe naively) that most folks who struggle with these types of decisions are solidly middle/upper middle class. Insanely rich people don't particularly care about the cost. I definitely went to school with kids of CEO's etc. A quarter million for college is no biggie. But I grew up middle to upper middle class and with three siblings my parents struggled to send us all through college. We fell in the just "rich" enough to not get much of any aid but just "poor" enough to make it a struggle. A lot of my friends at Wake were in similar situations. Your point is a straw man for effect and you know it.

Of course it is. :)
Did you read the post that prompted it? It's in direct conflict with your points, which of course I agree with and I would imagine most others do.
 
Of course it is. :)
Did you read the post that prompted it? It's in direct conflict with your points, which of course I agree with and I would imagine most others do.

Must have missed it or something 👍
 
Definitely. This will leave them more money with which to create jobs when they graduate.

Because all rich people are entrepreneurs.
 
Like buckets said, I'm telling my kids early if they want to go to a private school then they better get at least a partial scholarship. Tuition continues to rise at a clip of 6%, twice as fast as inflation. At least you have WM and UVA in VA.

Of course all of this is easier said than done when all of us root for Wake, and our kids see our awesomeness and want to follow in our steps.
 
Yeah, people who take risks and start businesses and who have to worry about paying their employees and bills have it real easy

so you're saying you're a douche
 
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