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Grobe or Clawson, who ya got?

mebanedeac said:
The ACC is much tougher today than when we won our conference championship. We cannot measure Grobe and Clawson by numbers alone or by numbers primarily.
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WF’s annual game against Duke is tougher because Jim Grobe showed Duke that Wake Forest could compete in the ACC, causing Duke to finally invest in their program.

Clemson is a great football program. The rest of the ACC kinda sucks. FSU just missed a bowl for the first time since when? VT has been pretty poor since Beamer retired, Johnson led a mini renaissance at GT that fizzled out, UNC sucks, NC State is no better than they were with Rivers/Wilson, BC is worse than they were with Ryan.
 
Grobe left Clawson will a good defense and a pathetic offense. Clawson has recruited well to replenish the skill and RB positions and developed a young OL and Wolford at QB. 8 wins in year 4 was impressive. Getting to 7 this year after the injuries on defense and schematic problems related to the departed DC was impressive. Recruiting is looking good. Clawson could pass Grobe with one truly special season.
 
wfu22fan said:
Grobe left Clawson will a good defense and a pathetic offense. Clawson has recruited well to replenish the skill and RB positions and developed a young OL and Wolford at QB. 8 wins in year 4 was impressive. Getting to 7 this year after the injuries on defense and schematic problems related to the departed DC was impressive. Recruiting is looking good. Clawson could pass Grobe with one truly special season.
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Agreed. It would take a hell of a season to pass 2006 but man what Clawson has done has been nothing short of a miracle. He's stated numerous times he wants to get Wake to a point to where a bowl game is expected. If he can do that and have a season like 2006 or close, give me Clawson. I love Dave's fire on the sidelines. I loved Grobe but man it used to bother me when he would sit on the sidelines like a statue.
 
Maybe the game has changed and Claws is better at today's game than Grobe is. That's how Grobe can have such good teams, then fall really flat the last 3 or so years. The game changed, it no longer fit what Grobe was good at. And here we are.
 
BillBrasky said:
If its Grobe or Clawson straight up, you can't discount the last 5 years of Jim's reign. It was disgusting and 100% due to Grobe's nepotism and lack of desire to recruit. My first "adult" purchase was Wake season tickets for the 2009 season, which I kept for the next four years. I finally gave them up at the end of the 2012 season when I got sick of watching Grobe pick grass, Campanero run around the sideline screaming like a lone maniac, and almost nobody else doing jack shit. The end of the Grobe era was pathetic. He, nor his lifelong lieutenants, cared.
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In 2011, Grobe went 5-3 in conference (Something Clawson has yet to do in 5 years), finished 2nd in the Atlantic, beat a ranked Florida State team, and went to a bowl. By all accounts, that year was better than any of Clawson's years, except for losing the bowl game to an SEC team), and Grobe had a roster with 12 NFL football players on it (Josh Harris, Tommy Bohanon, Chris Givens, Michael Campanaro, Joe Looney, Josh Bush, Kevin Johnson, Bud Noel (PS), Brandon Chubb, Kyle Wilbur, Nikita Whitlock, Zach Thompson (PS))

I definitely won't discount that year in the equation.
 
^ fair enough, should of said four years. Although with the way that Givens played in that bowl game, that season leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Either way the end of Grobe’s tenure was an abject disgrace.
 
SDeacz said:
In 2011, Grobe went 5-3 in conference (Something Clawson has yet to do in 5 years), finished 2nd in the Atlantic, beat a ranked Florida State team, and went to a bowl. By all accounts, that year was better than any of Clawson's years, except for losing the bowl game to an SEC team), and Grobe had a roster with 12 NFL football players on it (Josh Harris, Tommy Bohanon, Chris Givens, Michael Campanaro, Joe Looney, Josh Bush, Kevin Johnson, Bud Noel (PS), Brandon Chubb, Kyle Wilbur, Nikita Whitlock, Zach Thompson (PS))

I definitely won't discount that year in the equation.
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That team finished with a losing record. I would say that Clawson's 2017 team finishing 8-5 with a bowl win over an SEC team is better. If you aren't playing in the conference championship then there is not much significance between 5-3 and 4-4 in the conference. Plus last year's team was also way more entertaining to watch than 2011.
 
Uhhh, yeah, we were better last year than in 2011.

Sagarin ratings:
2011 Wake - #73
2017 Wake - #29

The ACC was excellent last year, one of the best years I can remember in terms of overall conference strength. It was trash in 2011. You gotta look past conference records
 
Would have liked to see what Clawson would have done with that 2011 talent. 2011 was a fun and anguishing year. We could have easily been 7-1 in conference with wins over Syracuse and Clemson-- on the other hand we probably should have lost at Duke ( Givens last minute TD saved us) and we really laid an egg at Chapel Hill--were never in the game.
 
One of the worst years for Grobe's close game management, which was always really bad. 2004 and 2011 probably the worst years, endless close losses
 
wsc8521s said:
Uhhh, yeah, we were better last year than in 2011.

Sagarin ratings:
2011 Wake - #73
2017 Wake - #29

The ACC was excellent last year, one of the best years I can remember in terms of overall conference strength. It was trash in 2011. You gotta look past conference records
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So Clawson’s best year so far was better than Grobe’s what - 5th best year?

Uhhhh, ok
 
I'm directly addressing someone's assertion that 2011 was a better year than anything Clawson's done, dingus
 
SDeacz said:
In 2011, Grobe went 5-3 in conference (Something Clawson has yet to do in 5 years), finished 2nd in the Atlantic, beat a ranked Florida State team, and went to a bowl. By all accounts, that year was better than any of Clawson's years, except for losing the bowl game to an SEC team), and Grobe had a roster with 12 NFL football players on it (Josh Harris, Tommy Bohanon, Chris Givens, Michael Campanaro, Joe Looney, Josh Bush, Kevin Johnson, Bud Noel (PS), Brandon Chubb, Kyle Wilbur, Nikita Whitlock, Zach Thompson (PS))

I definitely won't discount that year in the equation.
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Which coach (and staff) would you rather have coaching one game with the same talent? One season? For me, it's Clawson, and it's not even close. Hell, I'll go as far as to say that Clawson would have had us in the Orange Bowl, as I'm confident he wouldn't have pissed away a double digit lead @Clemson when we had all the momentum. 8-4 or 9-3 (with 2 postseason games) instead of 6-6 and a bowl game loss we also should have won.

Clawson's recruiting rankings significantly exceed Grobe's, and I expect our results to continue to improve as we sign and develop more NFL caliber players.
 
tigerswood said:
Which coach (and staff) would you rather have coaching one game with the same talent? One season? For me, it's Clawson, and it's not even close. Hell, I'll go as far as to say that Clawson would have had us in the Orange Bowl, as I'm confident he wouldn't have pissed away a double digit lead @Clemson when we had all the momentum. 8-4 or 9-3 (with 2 postseason games) instead of 6-6 and a bowl game loss we also should have won.

Clawson's recruiting rankings significantly exceed Grobe's, and I expect our results to continue to improve as we sign and develop more NFL caliber players.
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If that's the case, so be it. We will see. In depth Recruiting rankings weren't really available like they are now for half of Grobe's career.

Additionally, the fresh deacs class, ranked 101 on 247 sports, and 14th in the ACC included:

Alphonso Smith (NFL)
Jeremy Thompson (NFL)
Stanley Arnoux (NFL)
Eric Berry
Kevin Patterson
Antonio Wilson
Chip Vaughn (NFL)
Sam Swank (Best kicker ever at wake)
Richard Belton
DJ Boldin (NFL PS)
CHantz McClinnic

Aaron Curry, who wasn't even listed on 247 sports as part of this class, was a first team AA and butkus award winner.
Two of the highest ranked players in that class, Brandon Drumgoole and ANthony Davis, were the worst players in that class.

Recruiting rankings can be very wrong. They penalize for class size. I've focused more on results.

Grobe did not have an indoor facility, a top D1 weight room, the stadium, practice locker rooms, players lounge that Clawson has for much of his career. THe practice locker room/fields/players lounge were not average, they were embarrassing. The weight room at my high school was better. Most mornings, we had to wait for the girls basketball team or Men's soccer team to finish before we could start lifting. That doesn't that happen at Bama, let alone UNC, NC State. Clawson's classes should be (ranked) much better. BUT, Grobe did more, recruited better considering the NFL talent he produced, with less resources.

I don't think the fact that grobe was leading or in more games, and lost more close games, while Clawson wins a higher percentage of close games (If true), and gets blown out a lot more than Grobe is an argument for either side.
 
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