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Gun Control Laws

Jesus, I went to the grocery store and the death toll went from 1 to 27.

Not going to have another tired gun debate.
 
bobknightfan said:
Obviously, there can be no meaningful correlation from the fact that this nation has by far the most firearms and by far the most firearm deaths.....because guns have nothing whatsoever to do with gun deaths.
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Journal of Trauma-Injury Infection & Critical Care: January 2011 - Volume 70 - Issue 1 - pp 238-243

Homicide, Suicide, and Unintentional Firearm Fatality: Comparing the United States With Other High-Income Countries
Richardson, Erin G. S.M.; Hemenway, David PhD

Abstract
Background: Violent death is a major public health problem in the United States and throughout the world.

Methods: A cross-sectional analysis of the World Health Organization Mortality Database analyzes homicides and suicides (both disaggregated as firearm related and non-firearm related) and unintentional and undetermined firearm deaths from 23 populous high-income Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development countries that provided data to the World Health Organization for 2003.

Results: The US homicide rates were 6.9 times higher than rates in the other high-income countries, driven by firearm homicide rates that were 19.5 times higher. For 15-year olds to 24-year olds, firearm homicide rates in the United States were 42.7 times higher than in the other countries. For US males, firearm homicide rates were 22.0 times higher, and for US females, firearm homicide rates were 11.4 times higher. The US firearm suicide rates were 5.8 times higher than in the other countries, though overall suicide rates were 30% lower. The US unintentional firearm deaths were 5.2 times higher than in the other countries. Among these 23 countries, 80% of all firearm deaths occurred in the United States, 86% of women killed by firearms were US women, and 87% of all children aged 0 to 14 killed by firearms were US children.

Conclusions: The United States has far higher rates of firearm deaths—firearm homicides, firearm suicides, and unintentional firearm deaths compared with other high-income countries. The US overall suicide rate is not out of line with these countries, but the United States is an outlier in terms of our overall homicide rate.
 
There really are no rationale arguments against gun control so there can be no rationale debate. Trying to state that we need guns to protect ourselves is a circular argument in that we need guns to protect ourselves from people with guns. The idea we need guns to protect ourselves from the government is a dumb premise since before it was muskets and rifles and the idea you can easily form a militia to defend yourself, you take your guns and I'll stay on the side with tanks and jets in the modern era. The idea that its your right and small government is dumb because there are plenty of things that are much less deadly that are regulated (marijuana). The argument that these mass killings could just as easily occur with bombs, knives, etc.. doesn't hold water because you are taking easy out of the equation. There is no conceivable notion there should not be gun control in this country except just like everything in politics the extremes overshadow any semblance of actual compromise and middle ground. Gun crazies lobby everyone should have a gun even a 2 year old, anti-gun crazies lobby all guns should be taken and thrown in the ocean. The majority of the public probably falls in the middle where they don't want guns to disappear they want regulation and laws that will protect us from the fucking psychos of this country.
 
All gun shows need to be banned, period, as of yesterday. Background checks should be twice as hard. Waiting periods should be twice as long.

Making a gun negligently available / unlocked should be at least a misdemeanor.

And clearly we need trained, armed guards in schools.
 
Is this the tipping point? Will the wholesale slaughter of elementary school children be enough to move the government to combat our national gun sickness?
 
What to do about the 300 million guns that are already in the country? I think an important part of the discussion needs to be how to handle what's already here.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
Is this the tipping point? Will the wholesale slaughter of elementary school children be enough to move the government to combat our national gun sickness?
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No.

1990s

From the late 1980s to the early 1990s, the United States saw a sharp increase in guns and gun violence in the schools. According to a survey conducted by The Harvard School of Public Health,[52] "15% [of students surveyed] said that they had carried a handgun on their person in the past 30 days, and 4% said that they had taken a handgun to school in the past year," a sharp increase from just five years earlier. By 1993, the United States saw one of the most violent periods in school shooting incidences.

May 1, 1992: Olivehurst, California Eric Houston, 20, killed four people and wounded 10 in an armed siege at his former high school. Prosecutors said the attack was in retribution for a failing grade.

According to the National School Safety Center, since the 1992-1993 U.S. school year there has been a significant decline in school-associated violent deaths (deaths on private or public school property for kindergarten through grade 12 and resulting from schools functions or activities):[53]

1992–1993 (44 Homicides and 55 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1993–1994 (42 Homicides and 51 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1994–1995 (17 Homicides and 20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1995–1996 (29 Homicides and 35 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1996–1997 (23 Homicides and 25 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1997–1998 (35 Homicides and 40 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1998–1999 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)
1999–2000 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)

According to the U.S. Department of Education, in the 1998-1999 School Year, 3,523 Students (57% High School, 33% Junior High, 10% Elementary) were expelled for bringing a firearm to school.[54]

The late 1990s started to see a major reduction in gun related school violence, but was still plagued with multiple victim shootings including;

January 12, 1995: Seattle Washington A student left school during the day and returned with his grandfather's 9mm. He wounded two students. The incident is portrayed in the documentary Cease Fire.[citation needed]

October 12, 1995: Blackville, South Carolina A suspended student shot two math teachers with a .32 caliber revolver.[citation needed]

November 15, 1995: Lynnville, Tennessee A 17-year-old boy shot and killed a student and teacher with a .22 rifle.[citation needed]

February 2, 1996: Moses Lake, Washington Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.[55]

February 19, 1997: Bethel, Alaska Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.[55]

October 1, 1997: Pearl, Mississippi Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.[55]

November 27, 1997: West Palm Beach, Florida Conniston Middle School 14-year-old John Kamel was fatally shot in the chest at 8:40 a.m. outside school on a sidewalk by 14-year-old Tronneal Mangum after an argument over an Adidas watch that Mangum had taken from Kamel.[citation needed]

December 1, 1997: West Paducah, Kentucky Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.[55]

December 15, 1997: Stamps, Arkansas Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot[55]

March 24, 1998: Jonesboro, Arkansas Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods[55]

April 24, 1998: Edinboro, Pennsylvania One teacher, John Gillette, was killed and two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.[55]

May 21, 1998: Springfield, Oregon Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home, shot to death by their son[55]

June 15, 1998: Richmond, Virginia One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway[55]

April 20, 1999: Littleton, Colorado 14 students (including shooters) and one teacher killed, 27 others wounded at Columbine High School. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.[55]

May 20, 1999: Conyers, Georgia Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend[55]

2000s

February 29, 2000: Unidentified 6-year-old offender in Michigan school shooting. 1 student fatality.[56]
May 26, 2000: Lake Worth, Florida Lake Worth Middle School Florida teacher Barry Grunow was fatally shot by his student, 13-year-old Nathaniel Brazill, who had returned to school after being sent home at 1 p.m. by the assistant principal for throwing water balloons. Brazill returned to school on his bike with a 5 inch Raven and four bullets stolen from his grandfather the week before. Brazill was an honor student. Grunow was a popular teacher and Brazill's favorite.[56]
August 4, 2000: Unnamed with no confirmed at in Brazil school shooting. 1 student fatality.[56]
September 26, 2000: Darrel Johnson, 13, offender in Louisiana school shooting with 1 student fatality.[56]
March 5, 2001: Charles Andrew William, age 15, offender in California school shooting with 2 student fatalities.[56]
March 30, 2001: Donald R. Burt Jr., age 18, offender in Indiana school shooting with 1 student fatality.[56]


September 24, 2003: John Jason McLaughlin, age 15, offender in Minnesota school shooting with 2 student fatalities.[56]

February 2, 2004: Unidentified offender in Washington, DC school shooting with 1 student fatality.[56]
May 7, 2004: Unidentified 17 year old offender in Maryland school shooting with 1 student fatality.[56]



March 21, 2005: Jeff Weise, 16 year old offender in Minnesota school shooting. Fatalities include 1 teacher, 5 students, 1 security guard, 2 relatives.[56]

November 8, 2005: Kenny Bartley, age 15, offender in Tennessee school shooting with 1 principal fatality.[56]
2000–2001 (19 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)[citation needed]
2001–2002 (4 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)[citation needed]
2002–2003 (14 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)[citation needed]
2003–2004 (29 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)[citation needed]
2004–2005 (20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)[citation needed]
2005–2006 (5 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)[citation needed]
2006–2007 (38 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)[citation needed]
2007–2008 (3 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)[citation needed]
2008–2009 (10 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)[citation needed]

2010s

February 27, 2012: Chardon, Ohio T.J. Lane, 17, took a .22-caliber pistol and a knife to Chardon High School and fired 10 shots at a group of students sitting at a cafeteria table, killing 3 and wounding 2.[57]

August 27, 2012: Baltimore, Maryland Robert Gladden, 15, allegedly took a double barrel shotgun to Perry Hall High School and shot a 17 year old senior with Down syndrome in the lower back.[58][59]

September 26, 2012: Stillwater, Oklahoma Cade Poulos, 13, shot himself in the head right before classes started at Stillwater Junior High School.[60]

November 30, 2012: Christopher Krumm, age 25, offender in Wyoming school shooting with bow and arrow, 1 teacher, 1 relative and self.[61]

December 14, 2012: Newtown, Connecticut school shooting
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There is no legitimate reason to allow gun shows at which sales are made.

If you resell your gun to a private party and it is used in a crime or found to be owned a criminal, you should be arrested. The way around this is every gun sale should be registered.
 
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If guns are not the problem, someone tell me what is? I think we should invest in mental health like we invest in oil, natural gas, coal, etc. If we cannot make changes to society, and just have to wade through life like cattle waiting to be slaughtered by the next pyscho, then I want no part of this country. What a broken world we live in where we squabble over petty things while we send drones to blow up half the world and refuse to make changes when our children cannot be kept safe.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
If guns are not the problem, someone tell me what is? I think we should invest in mental health like we invest in oil, natural gas, coal, etc. If we cannot make changes to society, and just have to wade through life like cattle waiting to be slaughtered by the next pyscho, then I want no part of this country. What a broken world we live in where we squabble over petty things while we send drones to blow up half the world and refuse to make changes when our children cannot be kept safe.
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Well said.
 
I would be very interested to see more posts with some specific ideas as to how we fix this problem. It seems almost impossible to me. I am not a gun owner (they scare the shit out of me) but I can understand why someone would want to own a gun.

But what kind of regulations/laws do we put in place to protect the public from the kind of person who would slaughter kids in an elementary school? If there are, in fact, 300 million guns already out there, what can we realistically do about it?
 
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