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HBO Real Sports bringing the heat on UNC Academic Fraud

It really was. Amazed that he consented to taking that test and having the results aired.
 
TARDAWG said:
I agree with you on this, but you have to admit in many situations they are getting four years of food, a poor to fair education, some wonderful travel, and if they are an athlete in a good program the chance to improve. Guess what? There are other options.
#1 Don’t accept the scholarship, you know the situation, if you are being exploited, take your talents to a D-league or any other paying program that will take you.
#2 Don’t let the NCAA system exploit you and give you a crappy education, pay for any that you are qualified to obtain, apply for academic scholarships, make it on your own like the other 92% of college students.
#3 Screw College!!! Get a job at the mill, McDonalds, a yard service, bust right our into the real world and start earning your 24k.

To act like these student athletes receive nothing in return is a joke. There are other options, so if you do not like the system, don’t play. I promise there is a long list of High School athletes that will take the spot. Some will choose the easy crappy degrees being handed to them, others will push for bigger and better things and earn very impressive degrees that will take them far in life.

It all starts with the greed at the professional level, and it filters all the way down to the kids in Junior High School. Kids being told they are great at certain sports and that the world should reward them in the future. Most adults work at jobs where the company reaps more rewards than the paycheck the employee pulls home, it’s just simple business. If Athlete’s feel they are being shorted they can choose any of the options I mentioned above.

I do not think it's is fair that there are not more stories about athletes or statistics showing the number of NCAA participants who would have never gone to college that now hold degrees and have obtained jobs that would have never been possible. I promise the good would out weigh the bad, but the media (ESPN, HBO, 60 Minute and the like) like to find the fewer tarnished stories and make them out shine the positive ones.
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This is a poor justification for a cartel, which the NCAA member schools are. These arguments lost when used against coal miners years ago, and they will lose again. The NCAA's "Company Store" will soon be out of business.
 
qcdeac said:
It really was. Amazed that he consented to taking that test and having the results aired.
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It was pretty clear the Memphis player wanted help, but didn't really know how to get it. The people who were supposed to be helping him were a big part of the problem in the first place.
 
PhDeac said:
So why are we not paying student-athletes?

Oh yeah, because they're getting an "education" worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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How is this comment relevant? They ARE getting an education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. If they choose to piss it away by taking classes that don't exist, that is on them. Understand, I fully agree that the institution and the system is at fault for catering to these kids and funneling them to these BS classes to make sure they are eligible. But, the question of whether they also deserve to be paid is completely unrelated to the fraudulent education system in place at some schools.
 
scooter84 said:
How is this comment relevant? They ARE getting an education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. If they choose to piss it away by taking classes that don't exist, that is on them. Understand, I fully agree that the institution and the system is at fault for catering to these kids and funneling them to these BS classes to make sure they are eligible. But, the question of whether they also deserve to be paid is completely unrelated to the fraudulent education system in place at some schools.
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Did you see the piece? Many student-athletes can't choose their courses and majors.

If we aren't paying because they're getting a free education, yes, it matters that the education is fraudulent.
 
I am in no way supporting the NCAA as an organization, I am more addressing the overall complaint that these young athletes are being cheated out of a good education, and the notion that they are being extorted by their schools who make a profit from their athletic talent.

There are lots of athletes that attended schools they had no business attending from an academic standpoint, earned a degree in a very easy major, but yet picked up a job in and industry just because the played for a certain team. I would be willing to bet, more times than not there is little chance they could have acquired the same position without the affiliation of the school. Are they making millions? In less than 1% of the cases, but then again, less than the 1% of the non student athletes will either in an annual salary.

awaken said:
This is a poor justification for a cartel, which the NCAA member schools are. These arguments lost when used against coal miners years ago, and they will lose again. The NCAA's "Company Store" will soon be out of business.
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TARDAWG said:
I am in no way supporting the NCAA as an organization, I am more addressing the overall complaint that these young athletes are being cheated out of a good education, and the notion that they are being extorted by their schools who make a profit from their athletic talent.

There are lots of athletes that attended schools they had no business attending from an academic standpoint, earned a degree in a very easy major, but yet picked up a job in and industry just because the played for a certain team. I would be willing to bet, more times than not there is little chance they could have acquired the same position without the affiliation of the school. Are they making millions? In less than 1% of the cases, but then again, less than the 1% of the non student athletes will either in an annual salary.
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The coaches, athletic directors and deans who have done this or are doing it in an ongoing way should be immediately terminated and banned from returning to D1.

All the institutions who have participated should be required to continue full scholarships to all athletes they have effectively defrauded who haven't yet graduated.
 
awaken said:
This is a poor justification for a cartel, which the NCAA member schools are. These arguments lost when used against coal miners years ago, and they will lose again. The NCAA's "Company Store" will soon be out of business.
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My only fear is the NCAA's replacement will be even worse.

Letting Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma and UNC guard the hen house can't be better. You could argue it can't be worse too...
 
I watched the piece, and I have to take them for their word. None of us know what these students were capable of coming out of High School, but my bet is that they were not off the charts on test scores, just a guess. Were they persuaded into a major that would be less challenging than most? we would all agree yes. I bet if you looked at other freshman in the class, there were some that went on to study more challenging majors, and earned their degree in doing so. So we are to assume these two UNC players were not the brightest, but now ask yourself, how did they sound in that interview to you? I will be honest I was expecting to listen to players stumbling on their words or using poor diction, and quite frankly look the part of a high school flunkie, instead I watched two young men tell their side of the stories in a well versed interview, and looking like they are young professionals. Do you really think they would have been able to give the same type of interviews if they never attended UNC? (only using UNC because that is where these two athletes attended).

Players are taught a lot more than just classroom courses, they are taught to represent themselves in real life interviews. They get tutored at UNC, Duke, UGA, Wake, you name it. Athletic programs work hard to mold the players to represent their schools. Do schools do it for selfish reasons? Yes. Do the student athletes still benefit from this despite the schools gain? Yes. Do some fail the task? You bet, but I would still argue as a whole universities do a great job at molding young men at a important transitional stage in their life.

A few weeks ago I went back and watched interviews of recruits who are now about to graduate from the college ranks, and improvement in their verbal skills, vocabulary and presentation is a real gift I think many are not willing to admit.

PhDeac said:
Did you see the piece? Many student-athletes can't choose their courses and majors.

If we aren't paying because they're getting a free education, yes, it matters that the education is fraudulent.
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RJ, Please take this as a compliment to WFU, but how in the heck would Wake ever field a team if you were only to enroll athletes on the same standards that are used for regular admission? Please do not tell me you do not think Wake also have a set path for certain athletes. EVREY and I mean very school has an easier path, forcing one to take it is wrong, but making it available is done everywhere.

RJKarl said:
The coaches, athletic directors and deans who have done this or are doing it in an ongoing way should be immediately terminated and banned from returning to D1.

All the institutions who have participated should be required to continue full scholarships to all athletes they have effectively defrauded who haven't yet graduated.
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TARDAWG said:
I watched the piece, and I have to take them for their word. None of us know what these students were capable of coming out of High School, but my bet is that they were not off the charts on test scores, just a guess. Were they persuaded into a major that would be less challenging than most? we would all agree yes. I bet if you looked at other freshman in the class, there were some that went on to study more challenging majors, and earned their degree in doing so. So we are to assume these two UNC players were not the brightest, but now ask yourself, how did they sound in that interview to you? I will be honest I was expecting to listen to players stumbling on their words or using poor diction, and quite frankly look the part of a high school flunkie, instead I watched two young men tell their side of the stories in a well versed interview, and looking like they are young professionals. Do you really think they would have been able to give the same type of interviews if they never attended UNC? (only using UNC because that is where these two athletes attended).

Players are taught a lot more than just classroom courses, they are taught to represent themselves in real life interviews. They get tutored at UNC, Duke, UGA, Wake, you name it. Athletic programs work hard to mold the players to represent their schools. Do schools do it for selfish reasons? Yes. Do the student athletes still benefit from this despite the schools gain? Yes. Do some fail the task? You bet, but I would still argue as a whole universities do a great job at molding young men at a important transitional stage in their life.

A few weeks ago I went back and watched interviews of recruits who are now about to graduate from the college ranks, and improvement in their verbal skills, vocabulary and presentation is a real gift I think many are not willing to admit.
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Yet they were still having trouble getting the types of jobs UNC graduates should be getting right out of college.
 
TARDAWG said:
RJ, Please take this as a compliment to WFU, but how in the heck would Wake ever field a team if you were only to enroll athletes on the same standards that are used for regular admission? Please do not tell me you do not think Wake also have a set path for certain athletes. EVREY and I mean very school has an easier path, forcing one to take it is wrong, but making it available is done everywhere.
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smh
 
So FSU self reported that they had a tutor who helped students, as well as student athletes, in an online music class. One class. The coaching staff had "no idea" this was going on yet FSU had these penalties...

In addition to the self-imposed penalties, the NCAA then also ordered that FSU vacate any and all wins in which those student-athletes, which the NCAA deemed ineligible, participated in during that time frame. The FSU Athletic Department announced earlier today that they have determined that Florida State University will vacate 12 wins in football, 22 wins in men's basketball, a NCAA post season baseball victory, one national championship in men's track and field, a NCAA tournament victory in women's basketball, as well as other wins in these and several other men's and women's sports.

Now, FSU deserved what it got but UNC better get worse!
 
TARDAWG said:
I am in no way supporting the NCAA as an organization, I am more addressing the overall complaint that these young athletes are being cheated out of a good education, and the notion that they are being extorted by their schools who make a profit from their athletic talent.

There are lots of athletes that attended schools they had no business attending from an academic standpoint, earned a degree in a very easy major, but yet picked up a job in and industry just because the played for a certain team. I would be willing to bet, more times than not there is little chance they could have acquired the same position without the affiliation of the school. Are they making millions? In less than 1% of the cases, but then again, less than the 1% of the non student athletes will either in an annual salary.
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Can you give us some specific examples, or do you just assume that is the case?
If you are just assuming, what type of job do you think they would have gotten if they had support and expectation from their student advisor that they get a real education? They are still being molded. I am confident most coaches pitch that to the parents, that they are going to take care of them. It is the universities' responsibility to foster that, not just say do what you want as long as you show up on Saturday. And blaming the students for the fraudulent system? Come on.

The adults in the room should be making the decisions on whether a given student-athlete can succeed at their school and it is on them to make sure everything is done for that to happen. As was noted, these kids weren't always given options. No one is saying they didn't get any benefit from the deal but they should be able to count on academic advisors that have their best interest in mind. Giving them room and board does not excuse skimping on the education. That was part of the agreement according to the NCAA. The athletes definitely bear some responsibility, but it is the adults making money off of them that should be held accountable. The athletes already have been if they lost out on that education.
 
Not for nothing, but if these kids can't read at a fourth grade level there are significant issues before they even step on a college campus.
 
TARDAWG said:
RJ, Please take this as a compliment to WFU, but how in the heck would Wake ever field a team if you were only to enroll athletes on the same standards that are used for regular admission? Please do not tell me you do not think Wake also have a set path for certain athletes. EVREY and I mean very school has an easier path, forcing one to take it is wrong, but making it available is done everywhere.
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The availability of fake classes/majors is not done everywhere.
 
PhDeac said:
So why are we not paying student-athletes?

Oh yeah, because they're getting an "education" worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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They are given the opportunity for a free education. What they choose to do with it is up to them. You can lead a horse to water...
 
Final paper and only assignment for a class (AFAM 41) that never met at UNC. It got an A-.

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