How many more school shootings before the NRA allows common sense?

[seawolf2010]

Yes! And so do over 80% of Americans. You are the extremist here.

As to all our medical info be available, that's just wrong.

There is NO excuse not to do a background check on EVERY transfer of ownership of EVERY gun/rifle in America. Other than to kill people, there is NO reason to have 30, 50. 100 round magazines/drums.

the ONLY reason bumpstocks exist is to illegally turn semi-automatic weapons in killing machines.

The fact that you won't consider logical, sane gun laws clearly puts the blood of innocents on you.

Ever hear of ransomware aiming for hospitals? I'm not wrong in that regard. If you choose to ignore it that's on you but your medical history can be easily hacked and sold to the highest bidder for w/e purpose.

And I never said I wouldn't consider sane gun laws, you put those words in my mouth. So try again. I just fail to see how having a national gun registry is anyway beneficial.

 

[seawolf2010]

Is this serious? Strengthening background checks/pre-screening for mental health would be a huge help in gun suicide prevention. Mental health and gun control do not have to be conflicting issues - they are very closely related.

Here's the problem I see with what you're proposing about mental health being portion of gun control; Right now opioids are a huge problem throughout America, some providers are doing the right thing and having people sign drug contracts before prescribing them to patients. Others are just operating pill mills but are documenting it just enough that they can't be found as doing anything illegal.

How are you going to prevent a similar situation with gun control? Because I would bet that something similar will occur if this is pushed

 

[PhDeac]

Ever hear of ransomware aiming for hospitals? I'm not wrong in that regard. If you choose to ignore it that's on you but your medical history can be easily hacked and sold to the highest bidder for w/e purpose.

And I never said I wouldn't consider sane gun laws, you put those words in my mouth. So try again. I just fail to see how having a national gun registry is anyway beneficial.

I think it would be very beneficial to attach a name to every gun and track gun transactions.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Here's the problem I see with what you're proposing; Right now opioids are a huge problem throughout America, some providers are doing the right thing and having people sign drug contracts before prescribing them to patients. Others are just operating pill mills but are documenting it just enough that they can't be found as doing anything illegal.

How are you going to prevent a similar situation with gun control?

So you're suggesting with less regulation of opiods, there would be fewer pill mills?

 

[DistrictDeacon]

Trump comes out in luke warm support of strengthening background check legislation.

Bets on whether the NRA opposes?

 

[seawolf2010]

So you're suggesting with less regulation of opiods, there would be fewer pill mills?

Different topic entirely and a huge rabbit hole. But one problem is insurance companies paying for an insane amount of opioids being prescribed. I just had a surgery and I think I was given 3 weeks of pain killers. After 3-5 days I was off of the heavy pain killers and just on Tylenol/ibuprofen and they worked just as well once the worst had passed.

Honestly a study needs to be done to see on average how many opioids are actually needed following surgery/chronic pain management and also different therapies that help to reduce the amount of opioids taken.

 

[seawolf2010]

I think it would be very beneficial to attach a name to every gun and track gun transactions.

One file will render that useless.

 

[RJKarl]

Ever hear of ransomware aiming for hospitals? I'm not wrong in that regard. If you choose to ignore it that's on you but your medical history can be easily hacked and sold to the highest bidder for w/e purpose.

And I never said I wouldn't consider sane gun laws, you put those words in my mouth. So try again. I just fail to see how having a national gun registry is anyway beneficial.

Isolated criminals is not making everyone's health data available.

A gun registry doesn't harm a single person. It does help to see if you illegally sold a gun/rifle to felon or person who has no right to own one. You have to register to vote.

Why don't look at the entirety of my suggestions not just one? Be specific.

 

[tigerswood]

Here's the problem I see with what you're proposing about mental health being portion of gun control; Right now opioids are a huge problem throughout America, some providers are doing the right thing and having people sign drug contracts before prescribing them to patients. Others are just operating pill mills but are documenting it just enough that they can't be found as doing anything illegal.

How are you going to prevent a similar situation with gun control? Because I would bet that something similar will occur if this is pushed

If a medical health professional signs off on allowing a patient to receive a gun, and he then commits a mass shooting, couldn't that doctor be held accountable? Some sort of malpractice? I don't know the answer, but either way, the doctor's name and reputation are going to be on the line.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Different topic entirely and a huge rabbit hole. But one problem is insurance companies paying for an insane amount of opioids being prescribed. I just had a surgery and I think I was given 3 weeks of pain killers. After 3-5 days I was off of the heavy pain killers and just on Tylenol/ibuprofen and they worked just as well once the worst had passed.

Honestly a study needs to be done to see on average how many opioids are actually needed following surgery/chronic pain management and also different therapies that help to reduce the amount of opioids taken.

It was your analogy. I'm just following it. You suggested that regulations would be ineffective because organizations wouldn't follow them just like opiods. I'm just asking if you think that the opiod analogy holds up if you removed more regulation from that marketplace?

 

[seawolf2010]

Isolated criminals is not making everyone's health data available.

A gun registry doesn't harm a single person. It does help to see if you illegally sold a gun/rifle to felon or person who has no right to own one. You have to register to vote.

Why don't look at the entirety of my suggestions not just one? Be specific.

https://www.recode.net/2017/6/27/15881666/global-eu-cyber-attack-us-hackers-nsa-hospitals

It's a bigger issue than you give it credit.

And where is the current list at? 1st page?

 

[RJKarl]

You copied and replied to my list 12 posts up. But let's save you some effort:

Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
73, I posted this a couple of pages ago. I think it's very reasonable:

If not for the NRA, the following would be done deals:

Back ground check on every transfer of ownership of any gun/rifle- this includes gun shows and private sales
Ban Bump stocks
Ban magazines/clips of over 12 (or 15)
Register all guns
Military must immediately update databases with crimes committed in the military

Not quite as easy but still supported by over 50% of the public:

Ban military style weapons like AR-15s
Limit monthly sales of production guns (with exceptions for licensed security companies and for collections of antiques {100+years old}
Liability Insurance on every gun/rifle
Strict liability laws on guns/rifles like we have on cars/homes
Make manufacturers liable for not blocking convertibility to fully automatic
If you don't do a trackable background check and a crime is committed with your former gun, you get charged as an acessory

 

[PhDeac]

Why do we have any laws then?

 

[seawolf2010]

If a medical health professional signs off on allowing a patient to receive a gun, and he then commits a mass shooting, couldn't that doctor be held accountable? Some sort of malpractice? I don't know the answer, but either way, the doctor's name and reputation are going to be on the line.

Do we hold a provider accountable if their patient goes on a drug/alcohol binge and end up killing someone while driving? And then what provider would be held accountable? Primary care? Psychiatrist (if they see one)? Counselor they were seeing for drug/alcohol problems?

 

[RJKarl]

We hold a bartender accountable if their customer is drunk and kills someone. Bar/restaurants have lost their licenses and their businesses because they overserved.

How about the entire list I posted...

 

[seawolf2010]

You copied and replied to my list 12 posts up. But let's save you some effort:

Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
73, I posted this a couple of pages ago. I think it's very reasonable:

If not for the NRA, the following would be done deals:

Back ground check on every transfer of ownership of any gun/rifle- this includes gun shows and private sales
Ban Bump stocks
Ban magazines/clips of over 12 (or 15)
Register all guns
Military must immediately update databases with crimes committed in the military

Not quite as easy but still supported by over 50% of the public:

Ban military style weapons like AR-15s
Limit monthly sales of production guns (with exceptions for licensed security companies and for collections of antiques {100+years old}
Liability Insurance on every gun/rifle
Strict liability laws on guns/rifles like we have on cars/homes
Make manufacturers liable for not blocking convertibility to fully automatic
If you don't do a trackable background check and a crime is committed with your former gun, you get charged as an acessory

Sorry didn't know if there was more/less.

Background checks; Honestly I'm fine with background checks for gun sales.
Bump stocks are already illegal.
Clip size; don't really see a need for them to be that big either
Register all guns; Nope nope nope nope already covered why.

Ban AR-15; If you're already limiting clip size then why ban AR's?
Monthly sales; what exactly do you mean by production guns?
Liability insurance; Will only hurt legal gun owners and I'm not sure how it will stop anything.
Manufacturers; meh don't agree, otherwise we'd have to change the laws for car manufacturers being liable for not putting in a breathalyzer in their cars/trucks to stop drunk/high driving. Change both and I can agree.
Not sure how I feel about the last one.

 

[RJKarl]

Production guns=non-antiques. You can only buy 2 guns per month unless you have a legitimate security company or company that shows why you need more and to whom they will be given. An individual wouldn't be able to walk into a gun shop and buy 10 Glocks or 5 Barettas.

You have to have liability insurance on you car, on your home, on your business. There's no logical reason not to have liability insurance mandatory on guns.

Why ban AR/other military rifles? They aren't for hunting anything other than people. In fact, the family of the creator of the AR-15 says the product was never intended for private citizens to own.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...inventor-the-weapon-wasnt-meant-for-civilians

 

[Deacsfan27]

Why do we have any laws then?

The most frequent Facebook argument I have seen is that "criminals break laws, therefore creating more laws will not do anything but hurt those who comply already." I don't really have an argument back for that kind of rationale because it's amazing disingenuous and/or just plain stupid.

We regulate things literally all the time as a government to react to the changing world. To say that we can't change laws regarding guns because of an amendment written over 225 years ago that had literally no idea of what technology and guns could be in the present is just mind-boggling to me.

 

[TripleDeacon]

If a medical health professional signs off on allowing a patient to receive a gun, and he then commits a mass shooting, couldn't that doctor be held accountable? Some sort of malpractice? I don't know the answer, but either way, the doctor's name and reputation are going to be on the line.

What sane doctor would ever sign off if that were a possible outcome?

The mental health screening aspect is a tricky issue only because it could possibly have the effect of discouraging people who need treatment from seeking treatment. Would certain diagnosis result in a permanent ban similar to felons? In theory it makes sense, but it's tricky to implement practically.

 

[Deacsfan27]

My main question to those who oppose strengthening gun control laws is: what do you want to do instead?

More guns?
More armed guards at schools?
More metal detectors?
Make a school like a prison?
Increased mental health awareness?

I mean surely it isn't "nothing" or "keep the status quo."

It's clear that there is an issue with school shootings and mass shootings in general in America. What should be done about it if you don't believe that guns are not the problem?