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Humanity

Looks like we need more symmetry between the countries US business outsource jobs to and the countries of people's most likely to immigrate to the US.

Creating jobs in Mexico would help stop illegal immigration.
 
Looks like we need more symmetry between the countries US business outsource jobs to and the countries of people's most likely to immigrate to the US.

Creating jobs in Mexico would help stop illegal immigration.
 
If that spike in immigration settles the massive amount of unsettled land in the West, then cool. If they all move to our already overcrowded and crumbling big cities, there may be issues.

Seems like water shortages would be a huge issue if you massively increased the population out west.
 
Oh by all means, continue to push stats from 1790 and 1910 since they are so relevant.
 
Oh by all means, continue to push stats from 1790 and 1910 since they are so relevant.

Just as relevant as immigration stats from the 1960's. Pre-Immigration Act stats are relevant to show natural rates of immigration in America. If anything one would expect those rates to rise as global transportation becomes easier and cheaper.

Immigration rates have been artificially deflated by restrictive immigration policy beginning in 1924. Acting like immigration rates in the 1960's were "normal" and that we are now entering an unprecedented era of immigration is not historically accurate.
 
Immigration wasn't great for the people first in America pre 1924. Interesting that it's being portrayed as a positive.
 
Immigration wasn't great for the people first in America pre 1600. Interesting that it's being portrayed as a positive.

FIFY.

I was simply pointing out that when left unrestricted 15+ % immigrants is perfectly normal (and given relative ease and cheapness of global travel one would expect that percentage to be much higher than it was 100 years ago).

Immigration pre 1924 might not have been great for everyone that was already here, but it was certainly a positive for the immigrants and an overall net positive for the country.
 
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I wanted to post something on this, but I don't even begin to know how to discuss this issue.

Over the past two years is has become clear that the destruction of any form of effective national governments in Syria, Eritrea, Somalia, Afghanistan and Libya (other countries as well, including Mali, both Sudans and the northern parts of Nigeria) has created an enormous humanitarian crisis that has become the largest mass migration on the planet since the Second World War. This has coincided with a period of global economic slowdown and distress for many wealthy western nations who would normally have assisted more in the early stages of the crisis (as happened with the Vietnamese boat people in the 1980s). The rise of right wing, isolationist parties - many in Europe which don't even pretend to hide their xenophobia and racism - in western nations has happened rapidly, and has had an effect as well.

I don't even pretend to know if there is an answer, or what it would be. I do know that as humans we have some form of shared, common humanity which is what separates us from animals. More than 7,000 people have made it to the Westbanhoff train station the past two days alone here in Vienna, a mere 2km from where my comfortable flat is located. Tens of thousands more are currently bartering with human traffickers, police, transit officials and criminals of all varieties in Turkey, Lebanon, Egype, Libya, Greece, Serbia, Hungary and everywhere else along the path hoping that they could be lucky enough to end up as one of those people sitting in the park outside Westbanhoff simply because at least it would be safe there for a day or two. I have never been, and almost certainly never will be, in any situation in my life even remotely close to that desperate. 71 people were found dead by suffocation in the back of a small shipping truck on the side of the road here in Austria last week. Thinking of my wife and I looking into a truck with 69 people already in it and thinking "this is still the best option we have in our lives" is beyond sobering.

I went last night to a march with more than 20,000 other Viennese, just normal citizens - to let the government here know that outside of the rhetoric of hate, there's plenty of people who want to address this crisis and expect that as a society (and this goes far beyond Austria, but as an entire shared "wealthy western nation" society) we can find a way to recognize these people as fellow humans who simply need help - and that if we don't, we aren't humans ourselves. I've spent time this week now volunteering to help distribute food and other items that have been donated, and I'll continue to find ways to provide the help that I can. I don't know what the solution is to end this suffering, or if anyone will find one, but I do know that my basic requirement of being human being is to help others in need.

Right now, the USA is largely shielded from this beyond a few mentions in the news. It's come here to central Europe, and in person it's astonishing. And we're still only seeing the tip of it ... of the 4m Syrian refugees alone, the vast majority are in Lebanon and other "stable" regional nations which are in danger of becoming failed states themselves as the flood of migrants overwhelms their services.

The hashtag in German that has become something of a slogan for people trying to help is #menschsein (Humanity - mensch in German is the same as in Yiddish, implying the good characteristics of humanness). Massive banners in the stands stating "Refugees Welcome" were seen all over German and Austrian soccer matches last weekend, and the megaphone of hate speech has been silenced for a week or so at least.

This post is rambling and probably makes no sense. The scope of what I've seen just with my own eyes the past few days is saddening to my core. I do know that I am a human, and part of the human race. My trust in that has been both shaken badly and also encouraged, but putting it into context is nearly impossible.

Bumping this thread because I think vadimivich's original post deserves attention in light of Trump's Sweden comments. I think it's a little foolish to pretend that Sweden hasn't seen any effect from refugee migration, but I think remembering the humanity behind the political ideology is important. I'll practice dissoi logoi and post a 60 minutes video (decent ethos?) similar to the one DT probably watched on Fox News below:

If you can't watch the whole thing, start at 7:00, but I strongly encourage watching the whole thing. Sorry about the bait-y YouTube title.



Don't conflate the White House's Bowling Green (no factual value) comment with DT's comment on Sweden (actual human rights issue).
 
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