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If Obamacare had never been proposed.....

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HoosierDeac

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Would Republican supporters still have thought badly of Obama? It seems like that is the one thing they come back to that encompasses all the 'socialist', 'regulation', 'dictatorial' complaints.
 
Based on McConnell and others' immediate response, something else would have taken ACA's places as something to hate about Obama (based on the Tea Party movement, probably financial regulations).
 
HoosierDeac said:
Would Republican supporters still have thought badly of Obama? It seems like that is the one thing they come back to that encompasses all the 'socialist', 'regulation', 'dictatorial' complaints.
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They say that about all democrats.
 
I guess I just wonder that whatever that thing to bitch about instead of Obamacare would have been as polarizing- I am basing it anecdotally on comments people I know have made bitching about how much their insurance premiums went up every year and how it's unaffordable (these are generally people who are small businesses owners). If that other something wasn't something that hit people as directly in their pocketbook, would it been as polarizing? What else was there to get that riled up about?
 
The economy would likely have come back more quickly and strongly. Had Obama focused on the economy and thrown some bones to Pubs instead of Obamacare he may have have gone down as one of the better presidents and we almost assuredly would not have Trump as president. The senate and possibly the house would likely have remained in Democratic hands.
 
knowell said:
The economy would likely have come back more quickly and strongly. Had Obama focused on the economy and thrown some bones to Pubs instead of Obamacare he may have have gone down as one of the better presidents and we almost assuredly would not have Trump as president. The senate and possibly the house would likely have remained in Democratic hands.
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What actions would you have liked to have seen to help bring the economy back faster?
 
HoosierDeac said:
I guess I just wonder that whatever that thing to bitch about instead of Obamacare would have been as polarizing- I am basing it anecdotally on comments people I know have made bitching about how much their insurance premiums went up every year and how it's unaffordable (these are generally people who are small businesses owners). If that other something wasn't something that hit people as directly in their pocketbook, would it been as polarizing? What else was there to get that riled up about?
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Stimulus, BENGHAZI, a globalist foreign policy (BOWING TO FOREIGN LEADERS !), race relations, and probably the cost of health care.

Do you mean if the ACA as it was implemented hadn't been proposed, or healthcare reform in the abstract. Reforming healthcare was a pretty central piece of Obama's campaign in 2008. People really wanted it.
 
HoosierDeac said:
I guess I just wonder that whatever that thing to bitch about instead of Obamacare would have been as polarizing- I am basing it anecdotally on comments people I know have made bitching about how much their insurance premiums went up every year and how it's unaffordable (these are generally people who are small businesses owners). If that other something wasn't something that hit people as directly in their pocketbook, would it been as polarizing? What else was there to get that riled up about?
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He wasn't polarizing, The GOP did that to him.

This is a guy whose first action as POTUS was not to invite the GOP to the WH to work with them about the Stimulus Bill. He went to see them on The Hill to show them respect. He made 1/3 of Stimulus Bill tax cuts the GOP asked for. When the GOP bitched about "pork" in the bill, Obama took out over two dozen projects the GOP publicly opposed.

What did he get for reaching out? He got insulted by Boehner and McConnell. The GOP voted in lockstep to give hime ZERO votes on that bill.

Before ACA was written or passed, Obama reached out to the GOP. He created the Gang of 8 to work in a bi-partisan manner to write the bill. No GOP Member of Congress ever showed up to a single meeting.

What happened when multiple Members of Congress announced their racist birtherism? Neither Boehener nor McConnell stood up to them.

There never any interest in working with Obama. This is what history will say.
 
This is kind of like asking what the Bush presidency would've looked like without 9/11. Coulda shoulda woulda, but didn't happen.
 
only a trumpshill would compare the death of thousands of americans and the rise of world terror with the passing of the ACA
 
HoosierDeac said:
Would Republican supporters still have thought badly of Obama? It seems like that is the one thing they come back to that encompasses all the 'socialist', 'regulation', 'dictatorial' complaints.
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At the time, the administration had the choice of pursuing health care reform or immigration reform. Had they chosen the latter, it also would have been criticized as socialist legislation, even though the Chamber of Commerce was for it.

But since you brought up the ACA, I was chatting with a friend who is a doc the other day. She's not an ACA fan because of the restrictions and agrees with me that the Dems belief that the mandate would get enough young folks to sign up was naive at best. She said docs will be happier with the ACA repeal in terms of their practice but recognizes that we'll again have a ton of people not covered, and the Pub plan will be a failure. And after that, she is hopeful we'll end up with some type of single payer plan - probably more of a single payer plus plan where co-pays essentially mean people with means will get more care than lower income folks.
 
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cville deac said:
At the time, the administration had the choice of pursuing health care reform or immigration reform. Had they chosen the latter, it also would have been criticized as socialist legislation, even though the Chamber of Commerce was for it.

But since you brought up the ACA, I was chatting with a friend who is a doc the other day. She's not an ACA fan because of the restrictions and agrees with me that the Dems belief that the mandate would get enough young folks to sign up was naive at best. She said docs will be happier with the ACA repeal in terms of their practice but recognizes that we'll again have a ton of people not covered, and the Pub plan will be a failure. And after that, she is hopeful we'll end up with some type of single payer plan - probably more of a single payer plus plan where co-pays essentially mean people with means will get more care than lower income folks.
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I don't think that would bother lower income folks as long as they're getting a decent plan at a decent price.

Obama would have been blamed for health care where he passed ACA or not. He's being blamed for a down economy and high unemployment even though we're in a recovery and unemployment is low.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
This is kind of like asking what the Bush presidency would've looked like without 9/11. Coulda shoulda woulda, but didn't happen.
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The better question is, What would W look like if he hadn't intentionally lied us into the Iraq War? There would be no ISIS without the Iraq War.

Or if his policies hadn't helped lead to the recession.
 
RJKarl said:
The better question is, What would W look like if he hadn't intentionally lied us into the Iraq War? There would be no ISIS without the Iraq War.

Or if his policies hadn't helped lead to the recession.
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Go start your own thread. This one is about Barack Hussein Obama!
 
cville deac said:
At the time, the administration had the choice of pursuing health care reform or immigration reform. Had they chosen the latter, it also would have been criticized as socialist legislation, even though the Chamber of Commerce was for it.

But since you brought up the ACA, I was chatting with a friend who is a doc the other day. She's not an ACA fan because of the restrictions and agrees with me that the Dems belief that the mandate would get enough young folks to sign up was naive at best. She said docs will be happier with the ACA repeal in terms of their practice but recognizes that we'll again have a ton of people not covered, and the Pub plan will be a failure. And after that, she is hopeful we'll end up with some type of single payer plan - probably more of a single payer plus plan where co-pays essentially mean people with means will get more care than lower income folks.
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As it should be....amirite?
 
PhDeac said:
I don't think that would bother lower income folks as long as they're getting a decent plan at a decent price.

Obama would have been blamed for health care where he passed ACA or not. He's being blamed for a down economy and high unemployment even though we're in a recovery and unemployment is low.
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Yeah, I think her idea is coverage for emergency and basic preventative stuff. But take my MRI and microfracture surgery as an example. You have significant co-pays for that, and people like me are going to pay for it because I want to be able to exercise and golf, but lower income folks likely decide they can't afford it. Makes more sense to me than what we currently have. Right now I have expensive but shitty insurance because I'm self employed. But if I worked at UVA and had their cadillac plan I'd have low deductables and co-pays for anything I might want. Under a single payer plus plan, we'd all have to decide what extra testing and procedures are worth paying for. I mean, I never see this country going with a true single payer plan. But something like her idea might be passable down the road after the Pubs HSA based plan fails.
 
cville deac said:
Yeah, I think her idea is coverage for emergency and basic preventative stuff. But take my MRI and microfracture surgery as an example. You have significant co-pays for that, and people like me are going to pay for it because I want to be able to exercise and golf, but lower income folks likely decide they can't afford it. Makes more sense to me than what we currently have. Right now I have expensive but shitty insurance because I'm self employed. But if I worked at UVA and had their cadillac plan I'd have low deductables and co-pays for anything I might want. Under a single payer plus plan, we'd all have to decide what extra testing and procedures are worth paying for. I mean, I never see this country going with a true single payer plan. But something like her idea might be passable down the road after the Pubs HSA based plan fails.
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We'd have something like Germany does. They have both single payer and additional and paid for insurance for more coverage.
 
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