income inequality debate

[knowell]

Those policies are because Americans don't care about children. There's a disturbing survival of the fittest mentality when it comes to children. There's no urgency to address inequalities in child health or education to help give more kids a chance. We're content with mere survivors and those who grew up with advantage coming into adulthood prepared and leaving the rest behind.

PH is right. I noticed the same thing. Americans generally despise children. The trillions of dollars spent on their education and basic necessities is just part of the elaborate ruse to make others think they care. The fact that poor children in truly deprived countries experience a level of poverty that is not even conceived of in this capitalist society is no reason to doubt the true lack of concern from Americans. It is disgusting the way the US has all of these social programs to mask their true hatred of the poor.

 

[PhDeac]

PH is right. I noticed the same thing. Americans generally despise children. The trillions of dollars spent on their education and basic necessities is just part of the elaborate ruse to make others think they care. The fact that poor children in truly deprived countries experience a level of poverty that is not even conceived of in this capitalist society is no reason to doubt the true lack of concern from Americans. It is disgusting the way the US has all of these social programs to mask their true hatred of the poor.

Funding for each of the things you mentioned have been steadily decreasing over the last few decades as evidence of a shift in spending on children.

 

[Sgt Hulka]

Funding for each of the things you mentioned have been steadily decreasing over the last few decades as evidence of a shift in spending on children.

Actually, you could not be more wrong. Funding for Education and Food Stamps have greatly increased in the last 10 years. For education, federal spending has increased from to 49 billion to just shy of 66 billion (2002 figures vs. 2013 figures from actual budget). http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/history/edhistory.pdf

Spending on food stamps has increased from 20 billion in 2002 to 73 billion in 2013.

If money is not getting to the children, then your argument is with the PhD's and masters degreed people who are running these government programs, not the "heartless" US population who is funding this.

Also, you might be falling for the polititcians lingo that a decrease in the increase is actually a "cut." When the government asks for a 50% increase in funding, but congress only authorizes a 25% increase, for some reason our politicians call that a 25% cut (and the press does not call them on it.).

 

[PhDeac]

Actually I was talking about state spending.

 

[Sgt Hulka]

Actually I was talking about state spending.

For the state of Florida (where you live and purportedly have the best handle on it) education spending from 2002 to 2013 increased from 26.2 billion to 38.4 billion. That is almost a 47% (46.564) increase in just 11 years.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/piechart_2002_FL_statelocal

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/Florida_state_spending_2015

edited to add links

 

[poonmonger]

Nope. My dad was the first one on either side of my family to go to college. They're farmers and factory workers mostly. They generally vote outside their best interest because of Jesus and guns.

Ah so they should listen to you about their interests. We all know that you're the world's smartest person but they contribute to society unlike you.

 

[PhDeac]

Funding for each of the things you mentioned have been steadily decreasing over the last few decades as evidence of a shift in spending on children.

Hulka, you've given us numbers for the last decade. Even then for some reason, you used 2015 guessestimates (what the link calls it) to represent 2013 numbers.

Using your link, here are the percentages of state + local spending on education in Florida over the last 4+ decades.

1970 - 39.5
1975 - 34.1
1980 - 31.1
1985 - 29.5
1990 - 29.1
1995 - 27.1
2000 - 27.5
2005 - 24.9
2011 - 24.1 (last year with actual state + local data)

 

[RChildress107]

Nope. My dad was the first one on either side of my family to go to college. They're farmers and factory workers mostly. They generally vote outside their best interest because of Jesus and guns.

:thumbsup:

Classic response from a guy who thinks a large segment of the minority population votes outside their best interest.

 

[poonmonger]

Townie lies about his test scores. If he had so many perfect scores a company like Manhattan Prep would pay him 6 figures to tutor. If his scores are legit then his personality is so awful that even prep companies who are desperate for tutors with perfect scores won't touch him. Most likely his scores are lies AND he's just a miserable cunt with no people skills so this is the only place his opinion matters or so he thinks. Hence why rep matters so much to him.

 

[knowell]

Hulka, you've given us numbers for the last decade. Even then for some reason, you used 2015 guessestimates (what the link calls it) to represent 2013 numbers.

Using your link, here are the percentages of state + local spending on education in Florida over the last 4+ decades.

1970 - 39.5
1975 - 34.1
1980 - 31.1
1985 - 29.5
1990 - 29.1
1995 - 27.1
2000 - 27.5
2005 - 24.9
2011 - 24.1 (last year with actual state + local data)

So you are more concerned with the percentage of overall budget than actual dollars spent. If the overall budget triples, does the education budget spending need to triple as well? That is the kind of thinking that gets you perpetual debt.

 

[PhDeac]

So you are more concerned with the percentage of overall budget than actual dollars spent. If the overall budget triples, does the education budget spending need to triple as well? That is the kind of thinking that gets you perpetual debt.

Is this serious? It can't be.

 

[Sgt Hulka]

Hulka, you've given us numbers for the last decade. Even then for some reason, you used 2015 guessestimates (what the link calls it) to represent 2013 numbers.

Using your link, here are the percentages of state + local spending on education in Florida over the last 4+ decades.

1970 - 39.5
1975 - 34.1
1980 - 31.1
1985 - 29.5
1990 - 29.1
1995 - 27.1
2000 - 27.5
2005 - 24.9
2011 - 24.1 (last year with actual state + local data)

First of all, Knowell's response was appropriate. You said funding was being cut because "Americans don't care about children. (paraphrasing)"

I gave you real numbers that said federal funding for education has greatly increased in the "last couple of decades." Then you said you were talking about state numbers. I again gave you data that showed a steady increase in real dollars spent on education at the state level. Your reply that is has gone down as a percentage of all spending is irrelevant because the areas that would cause it to go down as a percentage are primarily healthcare, Food Stamps (SNAP) and other social spending (showing that Americans don't hate children). According to the links I provided, Education is still the #1 state expenditure for FL. Oh, and I purposely stopped at 2013 because that is the last year of real numbers, not "guesstimates."

Thanks for your reply.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. 2013 actual numbers were 37.5 billion. Still the single highest item in the state budget. So the actual increase in spending from 2002 to 2013 was 2 26.2 billion to 37.5 billion.

Edited to add actual numbers from 2013.

 

[knowell]

Is this serious? It can't be.

You actually teach kids and you ask that question? Certainly actual dollars are far more important than percentage of budget. If you get a 50% raise do you automatically spend 50% more on your food budget. If you increased your food budget by less than 50% your food budget would decrease as a percentage of the overall budget but could increase dramatically in real dollars. Surely that is more important.

You have twisted and twisted you argument in a ridiculous attempt to avoid saying that you were wrong.

 

[Liquid Karma]

Funding for each of the things you mentioned have been steadily decreasing over the last few decades as evidence of a shift in spending on children.

Actually I was talking about state spending.

Hulka, you've given us numbers for the last decade. Even then for some reason, you used 2015 guessestimates (what the link calls it) to represent 2013 numbers.

Using your link, here are the percentages of state + local spending on education in Florida over the last 4+ decades.

1970 - 39.5
1975 - 34.1
1980 - 31.1
1985 - 29.5
1990 - 29.1
1995 - 27.1
2000 - 27.5
2005 - 24.9
2011 - 24.1 (last year with actual state + local data)

Is this serious? It can't be.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

Not meaning to be an insult to Ph personally, this is one of my biggest critiques about sociology/polisci studies and the blind faith that some people put in them (most notably, millenials on this board who believe anything put on the internet with "study" or "university" attached).
We all knew kids who were math studs in high school and college, right? What majors did they primarily go into? Usually it was chemistry, accounting, physics, math, business, etc. Does anybody know anyone who was really good at math who went into sociology, or political science, or other similar majors? Yet we are supposed to put our faith into the mathematical conclusions of whatever dumbass political science major from state directional U wants to do a "study"? Even the publication from Harvard, is that their math department running it? I think not.

 

[PhDeac]

Funding is typically presented in terms of percentage of the budget.

The bulk of education funding is from state and local. Obviously federal education spending has gone up due to NCLB. Little of that actually goes to the kids.

 

[tjcmd]

Here you can check on inflation-adjusted spending trends by state. Taxpayers are spending a lot more, getting little or nothing more.

http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/state-education-trends#/OH

 

[PhDeac]

A lot of people who were good at math go into non-STEM fields. What a stupid argument. Quantitative analysis makes up the bulk of social science research.

I could pull a Townie and post my personal credentials but I'd be overreacting to a ridiculous argument.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

It's statements like that from 2&2 that make it appear that there is a war on education. Also I thought you were an attorney. What did you major in?

Eta: I don't believe you need an advanced mathematics degree to be able to properly run a study and interpret the results. As most know, majors in the humanities and social sciences generally have a quantitative and qualitative analysis course requirement for graduation.

 

[tjcmd]

Not meaning to be an insult to Ph personally, this is one of my biggest critiques about sociology/polisci studies and the blind faith that some people put in them (most notably, millenials on this board who believe anything put on the internet with "study" or "university" attached).
We all knew kids who were math studs in high school and college, right? What majors did they primarily go into? Usually it was chemistry, accounting, physics, math, business, etc. Does anybody know anyone who was really good at math who went into sociology, or political science, or other similar majors? Yet we are supposed to put our faith into the mathematical conclusions of whatever dumbass political science major from state directional U wants to do a "study"? Even the publication from Harvard, is that their math department running it? I think not.

A sociologist has to spend a lot of time looking like they do something. Even Mark Knopfler (2:25) knows they spend time inventing words that mean industrial disease.