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Indiana, the RFRA, and the backlash

Anyone is allowed to hold racist beliefs and say whatever they want, but companies are not permitted to prevent service on the basis of race. Why shouldn't those businesses be able to discriminate on the basis of race if they want to? Do you fundamentally disagree with the 14th Amendment?
 
So when US law decides that sexual orientation is a protected class then this conversation is over forever for you, that's good to know. Can't wait. Not to mention you didn't answer my question at all: do you fundamentally disagree with the 14th Amendment? Your questions to me seem to indicate that you disagree that the government should never be establishing standards for businesses but not consumers.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
So, in your mind, not only does everyone have a right to healthcare, but now they have a right to all sorts of business as well? There is no obligation for the business to function. If there is no florist in a particular town, the consumer does not have a right to demand one be created.

And yes, my second paragraph has a lot to do with this. You are saying that a business should not able to remove itself from commerce with respect to potential customers because of the behavior of those customers. But, you are presumably okay with a customer removing itself from commerce with respect to a business because of the behavior of the business. So why should one be outlawed and not the other? You are allowed to boycott ChickFilA because they have different beliefs than you, so why shouldn't ChickFilA be allowed to boycott you because you have different beliefs than them?
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This is scary stuff right here.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
So when US law decides that sexual orientation is a protected class then this conversation is over forever for you, that's good to know. Can't wait.
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From a legal standpoint, yes it would be over.

From a what would be the set-up in my perfect world standpoint, any non-publicly-traded company should be able to service/discriminate against whoever they want on whatever basis they want and let the market sort it out.
 
Well i just fundamentally disagree with your second paragraph but I think that was already pretty clear
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
So you never adjust your business habits based on customer service interactions? If an employee of a store or a waiter at a restaurant is an asshole to you, you never decide not to patronize that place again? People move business from one company to another a thousand times a day for a thousand different personalit-related reasons.

ETA: fuck, go on Google reviews or Yelp and look to see how many different people disparage a business because they thought the owner or employee was a jerk or something similar. Should that be outlawed as well?
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what if there's only one provider in your town and they won't deal with you?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Why? Presumably any business that engaged in discriminatory practices wouldn't last too long in this day and age.
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Why do you say that? The market isn't even aware of most discriminatory practices.
 
PhDeac said:
Why do you say that? The market isn't even aware of most discriminatory practices.
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Sure it is. Are you aware of any goods or services that are not available for anyone to purchase because of discrimination? Name a business that materially engages in discriminatory practices for which there is not a market alternative for the aggrieved consumer. The options already exist. There are very few monopolies left out there, and I'm not aware of them discriminating.
 
are contracts signed before the law enforceable as signed? what if an insurance carrier decides they don't want to settle claims occurring after the law for existing LGTB policyholders?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Sure it is. Are you aware of any goods or services that are not available for anyone to purchase because of discrimination? Name a business that materially engages in discriminatory practices for which there is not a market alternative for the aggrieved consumer. The options already exist. There are very few monopolies left out there, and I'm not aware of them discriminating.
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That doesn't address what I said. How would I know which businesses are discriminating and which ones aren't?
 
ImTheCaptain said:
are contracts signed before the law enforceable as signed? what if an insurance carrier decides they don't want to settle claims occurring after the law for existing LGTB policyholders?
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Of course. A signed contract would be enforceable regardless of whether it was signed before or after the law passed. This isn't making conduct illegal that would serve to void a contract, it is saying that someon can refuse from entering a contract. But the enforcability of an executed contract wouldn't be affected in any way.
 
PhDeac said:
That doesn't address what I said. How would I know which businesses are discriminating and which ones aren't?
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Not sure I follow ... someone doesn't know if they are being discriminated against in a commercial setting? If that is the case, then they probably aren't being discriminated against.
 
Pence with a HOF presser for the SNL crew. This is amateur hour. Blames media for mischaracterizing the bill while simultaneously saying the bill needs to be clarified. But why would you need to clarify a bill that is crystal clear?
 
Saw a poll yesterday that 36% of GOP support marriage equality, but 61% of 'Pubs younger than 30 support marriage equality. Old people aren't getting married and bakers, florists, and wedding photogs are almost entirely dependent on word of mouth. If fewer young people are anti-gay, who are these laws protecting? Bigots may not go out of business via lawsuit, but their business practices will help them become extinct.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Why? Presumably any business that engaged in discriminatory practices wouldn't last too long in this day and age.
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This is what you said. Let's focus on this.

I'm saying that any concept that the market will phase out businesses that discriminate requires that the market knows which businesses discriminate.

If I don't want to support any business that discriminates against Latinos in their hiring practices, how do I find that out?
 
PhDeac said:
This is what you said. Let's focus on this.

I'm saying that any concept that the market will phase out businesses that discriminate requires that the market knows which businesses discriminate.

If I don't want to support any business that discriminates against Latinos in their hiring practices, how do I find that out?
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Anyone capable of filing a discrimination lawsuit is just as capable of posting on Yelp that "X business hates gays". In fact, that's a much easier course of action.
 
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