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Interesting Insight on the Fiscal Cliff Negotiations

You even had a Republican representative calling for an immediate extension of tax cuts for the middle class. Let the Pubs walk away. See what happens.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Krauthammer calls it like it is http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ns_republicans_ought_to_simply_walk_away.html
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He couldn't be any more wrong.

The GOP has zero leverage. If they act like they have for the past four years, taxes go up on everyone and it's 100% their fault. Dems and the POTUS have all said they'd vote for/sign a bill that made the Bush Era tax cuts permanent for everyone earning under $250,000 per year.

The only reason isn't a law today is the GOP. The public understands this and is overwhelmingly for it. The numbers are over 70% against the GOP's position.

If the GOP stands hard and even one paycheck has the increased taxes will remember why and the GOP will pay for it.
 
Haven't forgotten about it at all. I also haven't forgotten about the collective stupidity of the American people that has gotten us in this mess, and will continue to prevent us from getting out of it.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Haven't forgotten about it at all. I also haven't forgotten about the collective stupidity of the American people that has gotten us in this mess, and will continue to prevent us from getting out of it.
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I love this. The collective stupidity of America that got us into this mess.

I would posit that the power structure in America, that makes the financial decisions we all live by, is made up of the very very wealthy and who would qualify as our 'best and brightest."

The "stupids" who voted for Obama and the dems who want higher taxes at the top and the safety net left alone have an average income far below that of the power structure who really runs things. They want the assholes who "got us into this mess" to pay to get us out. And they should. They made a lot of money while they were making the mess.

For every 1 person on an entitlement that is gaming the system to get a few extra food stamps, there are 100 Ivy League and Wake Forest assholes who are rigging the system in their favor to get a few extra thousand to vacation in Europe or to invest at low tax rates. Gimme a fucking break with this "blame the poor and stupid" routine...
 
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Make up whatever excuses you want as to why nobody is ever at fault for their elected officials. Meanwhile, the undeniable fact is that the chickens are coming home to roost, and everybody gets to deal with it.
 
^Certainly they are. And the charade the ruling class has pulled for the past 30 years to squeeze the middle class dry - while simultaneously blaming them for it - has reached its zenith and its damage is now being fully recognized. Horrible economic policy engineered to maximize returns for the few at the top cloaked in the American flag with a sign that reads "Let Freedom Ring."

You (and them) would have us believe that in that period, the powerful ruling class' increase in hard work and risk matched their increase in wealth - and that the decrease in the middle and lower middle class' wealth matches their decrease in hard work and risk. Just read a jhmd post about black Americans sometime. If you aren't gaining some wealth, you aren't working hard enough and its because of the 'gifts' given to you by government. It's a giant steaming crock of shit, but it was packaged and sold to a large segment of Americans ready to lap it by the sharpest minds in the biz. Not excuses, facts.
 
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RJKarl said:
He couldn't be any more wrong.

The GOP has zero leverage. If they act like they have for the past four years, taxes go up on everyone and it's 100% their fault. Dems and the POTUS have all said they'd vote for/sign a bill that made the Bush Era tax cuts permanent for everyone earning under $250,000 per year.

The only reason isn't a law today is the GOP. The public understands this and is overwhelmingly for it. The numbers are over 70% against the GOP's position.

If the GOP stands hard and even one paycheck has the increased taxes will remember why and the GOP will pay for it.
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I'm not sure that anybody has any leverage, but what we are seeing is exactly what I feared-- that the Dems aren't serious about spending. They want these negligible tax hikes first and then some kind of bogus agreement on spending that will be kicked down the road and never see the light of day. They want Pubs to issue their plan (and they do need to come up with some specifics, btw), which will no doubt include big entitlement cuts across the board, simply so they can demonize it.

I say give this another week or two. Another week or two of Pubs publicly appearing to agree to tax hikes with Obama and the Dems publicly not being serious on cuts, and then we'll see what your precious poll numbers say because it won't be the Pubs who are being obstinate. Everybody knows that taxes aren't going to do the trick. They won't come close to doing the trick. Serious cuts need to be on the table, and that includes cuts in defense.
 
That first paragraph drips with irony.
 
Pubs only want draconian spending cuts right now when a Dem is in the WH. Romney was proposing very modest spending reductions over the next 4 years.
 
WakeandBake said:
^Certainly they are. And the charade the ruling class has pulled for the past 30 years to squeeze the middle class dry - while simultaneously blaming them for it - has reached its zenith and its damage is now being fully recognized. Horrible economic policy engineered to maximize returns for the few at the top cloaked in the American flag with a sign that reads "Let Freedom Ring."

You (and them) would have us believe that in that period, the powerful ruling class' increase in hard work and risk matched their increase in wealth - and that the decrease in the middle and lower middle class' wealth matches their decrease in hard work and risk. Just read a jhmd post about black Americans sometime. If you aren't gaining some wealth, you aren't working hard enough and its because of the 'gifts' given to you by government. It's a giant steaming crock of shit, but it was packaged and sold to a large segment of Americans ready to lap it by the sharpest minds in the biz. Not excuses, facts.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you about the horrible policy. But it has occurred in a large part because more Americans have cared about American Idol than their political representatives over the last 20 years, and have focused more on who their representatives were boning than their qualifications and policies (even as recently as the election last month). So, again, the chickens ahve come home to roost. You can blame the successful as much as you want, but it won't change anything.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I don't necessarily disagree with you about the horrible policy. But it has occurred in a large part because more Americans have cared about American Idol than their political representatives over the last 20 years, and have focused more on who their representatives were boning than their qualifications and policies (even as recently as the election last month). So, again, the chickens ahve come home to roost. You can blame the successful as much as you want, but it won't change anything.
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Touche.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I don't necessarily disagree with you about the horrible policy. But it has occurred in a large part because more Americans have cared about American Idol than their political representatives over the last 20 years, and have focused more on who their representatives were boning than their qualifications and policies (even as recently as the election last month). So, again, the chickens ahve come home to roost. You can blame the successful as much as you want, but it won't change anything.
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I would add that the American public that was voting and paying attention has also fallen for/encouraged economic gimmicks like trickle-down and the housing bubble, and also allowed themselves to be fear mongered into supporting outrageous foreign wars. :)
 
WakeandBake said:
I would add that the American public that was voting and paying attention has also fallen for/encouraged economic gimmicks like trickle-down and the housing bubble, and also allowed themselves to be fear mongered into supporting outrageous foreign wars. :)
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Agreed for the most part, but I disagree with the classification of trickle-down as a gimmick. It is capitalism. You may not like it, and it may not be perfect, but it isn't a gimmick.
 
bobknightfan said:
(And WakeandBake has been killing this thread. He is dead-on 100% accurate in everything he has said. I keep getting that "spread some reputation around" every time I click on one of his posts.)
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Taken care of.
 
You know, if we had freedom in this country no one could force you to do anything as long as you were peaceful and the people who became rich by stepping on WakeandBake's dick would recieve the boot of justice up their ass. I am going to send a check today to the Libertarian Party in part to help W&B root out the evil rich white angry men ruining our lives.

I hate rich fat pigs.
 
bobknightfan said:
Thanks. Love what w&b has been saying....all the time, actually, but he's outdone himself in this thread. Great stuff.
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Neg-rep received from Caturday, who evidently does not:

11-30-2012 10:41 PM
Caturday
Thread: Interesting Insight on...

you serious, you uninformed clown
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...which of course means that W&B is doing a great job!
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Agreed for the most part, but I disagree with the classification of trickle-down as a gimmick. It is capitalism. You may not like it, and it may not be perfect, but it isn't a gimmick.
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Trickle-down isn't working. That's how we have high unemployment in an era of historically low taxes. Globalization spreads the trickle. Tax cuts drop the dripping. Don't have to hire people to make money anymore. In fact, it's incentivized.
 
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