bigdoublezero
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Could you produce two slices of toast that are EXACTLY the same? No? Well, double dim dam dum ass on you, Mr. "Science"
Is Atheism Irrational?
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Could you produce two slices of toast that are EXACTLY the same? No? Well, double dim dam dum ass on you, Mr. "Science"
BigTreeDeac
Ricky Peral
I just love that in your world science not having a full explanation= science proves it is God. It takes a truly delusional mind to come to that sort of irrational conclusion. It took millenia for science to explain how rain was formed but the fact it took that long didn't make the people dancing around praying to the Rain God correct in their thousands of years of contending it was controlled by a deity.
ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
oh boy, the abstract. wrong move, i already tried that
Listen dumbass, they created a copy of the linen coloration -- that's the God Damned lengths they took to try and replicate the fucking basic color. Do you have any clue as to what you just said?
Tell me you fuggin Genius, How The Fuck Did a God Damn Midieval artist/ forger get his hands on an excimer laser!?
That's just to get the coloring right, you asshole.
Maybe Dan Brown will have a treatise on it for you.
ChrisL68
Riley Skinner
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This coming from the same person who nicknamed himself "The Oracle".
That is all......................................
bigdoublezero
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Lycos is burning up today!
ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
science says: "These processes may have played a role in the generation of the body image on the Shroud of Turin."
another thought, "feces-based paint may have played a role in the generation of the body image on the Shroud of Turin"
In 1976 Dr. John Jackson and Bill Motten at Los Alamos National Laboratories placed a copy of the 1931 Giuseppe Enrie photo through a device called a VP-8 Analyzer and discovered the embedded spatial characteristics. Jackson and Motten were stunned to see "three-dimensional" results show up on the monitor screen from a reproduced 1931 Ernie image of the Shroud. The spatial data encoded into the image taken of the Shroud actually eliminates photography and painting as the possible mechanism for its creation and allowed them to conclude that the image was formed while the cloth was draped over an actual human body. The VP-8 Image Analyzer not only revealed a previously unknown information about the Shroud, it virtually eliminated the photographic and artistic theories, this in 1976.
At face value the Shroud Image looks like a faded form of photographic negative, yet the evidence from the very start of the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP) investigations has disputed the photographic hypothesis. It is certainly not a standard photographic image. Yet, when the Shroud is photographed the resulting negative is a positive image of the man it enshrouded. Additionally those photos have embedded within the image somehow spatial as well as holographic style information. How the photographic image of the artifact could transfer the embedded data is in itself a mystery.
bigdoublezero
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Nothing like 1970s tech examining a 1930s photograph to SETTLE THE SCIENCE
ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
Evidence For Authenticity:
• The cloth was an actual burial cloth with a man enshrouded within.
• It is an expensive well-made cloth of flax with a 3 over 1 herringbone weave. It is a single piece of linen cloth measuring about 14’ 3” by 3’ 7”. This corresponds with loom technology of the first century Palestine measurements of 2 cubits X 8 cubits.
• The burial is consistent with ancient first-century Jewish burial customs in all respects, including the attitude of the body (hands folded over loins), and type of burial clothes. The cloth (es) has been determines to be rapped in a specific manner around the body. The Sindon is the shroud itself, which wrapped the body. The Sudarium was a handkerchief like cloth that covered the face out of respect after death. It also protected the eyes from scavenged birds. There were chin bandages to keep the month closed and strips of cloth to bind the wrists and legs called the Othonia.
• Archeological evidence including the Shroud cloth itself is quite similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada. The “Masada Cloth” dates to between 40 B.C. and 73 A.D. This kind of stitch has never been found in Medieval Europe.
• Several bouquets of flowers are found around the head and body (waist up) comprising hundreds of flowers. Many are vague or incomplete but Professor Whanger of Duke University in the States claims to have found "twenty-eight" different species of "plants whose images are sufficiently clear and complete to make a good comparison with the drawings in Flora Palaestina" and of those, "Twenty grow in Jerusalem itself, and the other eight grow potentially within the close vicinity of Jerusalem" and "Twenty-seven of these twenty-eight bloom in March and April, which corresponds to the time of Passover and the Crucifixion". "Twenty-eight" different species are found on the Shroud and all twenty-eight grow in Israel. Twenty grow in Jerusalem itself, and the other eight grow potentially within the close vicinity of Jerusalem, either in the Judean Desert or in the Dead Sea area or in both. All twenty-eight would have been available in Jerusalem markets in a fresh state.
• Pollens evidence shows that it spent time in Turkey and Palestine. A total of 58 different pollens were identified on the Shroud. These pollens are native to four distinct areas around 1) the Dead Sea and the Negev, 2) the Anatolian Steppe (Edessa) of central and western Turkey, 3) the immediate environs of Constantinople, and 4) Western Europe. This shows that the object spent time in all these areas.
• The Pollen Evidence coincides with the Flower image Evidence.
• The wounds at the top of the head where created by a crown of tumbleweed a planet named gundelia tournefortii. It is an insect-pollinated plant that blooms in modern day Israel between March and May. The pollen spores lodged in the Shroud’s surface, as well as floral images mysteriously “imprinted” on the face of the cloth, could only have come from plants growing in a restricted area around Jerusalem.
• Dr. Garza-Valdes discovered oak tubules (microscopic splinters) in the blood of the occipital area (back of the head) as well as natron salts.
• Spectral Analysis of the rock dust taken from the foot area of the Shroud image is a specific Travertine matched exactly to stone found only at the Jerusalem Gate in Jerusalem and no where else. (Optical Engineer Sam Pellicori - 1978) (Dirt particles on the nose as well as on the left knee and heel.)
• Dr. Eugenia Nitowski (Utah archaeologist) in her studies of the cave tombs of Jerusalem noted the presence of Calcium Carbonate (limestone dust), the same as the limestone hills that tombs around Jerusalem were carved out of.
• The images are of the man enshrouded, coins of Pilate circa 29-32 CE. The coin images on the eyes are from the first century. They are Pilate Coins from 29 – 31 CE, specific coins of Jerusalem during the Crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth. It was a coin used in Jerusalem and nowhere else.
• The images were imprinted on the cloth after the blood and serum stains (forensic evidence).
• The mountains of forensic evidence and computer mapping of the wounds on the cloth outline clearly a picture of a brutally tortured man, one crucified in a manner specific to the biblical stories of Jesus, which was not the norm according to historians. This evidence includes the specific weapons used to inflict the wounds.
• Science deduces that there is no evidence of initial decomposition of the body, none. Even though the other evidence indicates a real corpse with rigor mortis lay within the cloth at the time of physical imprinting.
• The blood was on the Cloth before the image. The bloodstains on the Shroud are composed of hemoglobin and give a positive test for serum albumin. Numerous tests confirm this. The blood on the Shroud is real human blood, type AB (typed by Dr. Baima Ballone in Turin and confirmed in the U.S.). This blood type is rare (3.2% of the world population according to Dr. Leoncio Garza-Valdes), the highest percentage being found in northern Palestine.
• No dyes or paints or oils have been found on the Cloth. Reflectance spectra of image areas, scorched areas, and aged linen were identical (Gilbert and Gilbert, 1982). The conclusion is that all the observational methods applied by STURP failed to detect any of the historically known painting vehicles, media, or pigments, suggesting that the image was not a painting in any normal sense (Schwalbe & Rogers, 1982).
• Researchers believe that at least 50 artists were commissioned to paint replicas of the Shroud. When this process was completed the artist was allowed to then lay they're painting over the Shroud to "sanctify" them. Many excellent artists have attempted to recreate the image many of the times. These copies look like child stick drawings when compared to the original. These highly regarded paintings look nothing like the original. And why paint a shadow like negative image of Christ in the first place? And why not paint two or three, why is there only one Shroud.
• The cloth was an actual burial cloth with a man enshrouded within.
• It is an expensive well-made cloth of flax with a 3 over 1 herringbone weave. It is a single piece of linen cloth measuring about 14’ 3” by 3’ 7”. This corresponds with loom technology of the first century Palestine measurements of 2 cubits X 8 cubits.
• The burial is consistent with ancient first-century Jewish burial customs in all respects, including the attitude of the body (hands folded over loins), and type of burial clothes. The cloth (es) has been determines to be rapped in a specific manner around the body. The Sindon is the shroud itself, which wrapped the body. The Sudarium was a handkerchief like cloth that covered the face out of respect after death. It also protected the eyes from scavenged birds. There were chin bandages to keep the month closed and strips of cloth to bind the wrists and legs called the Othonia.
• Archeological evidence including the Shroud cloth itself is quite similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada. The “Masada Cloth” dates to between 40 B.C. and 73 A.D. This kind of stitch has never been found in Medieval Europe.
• Several bouquets of flowers are found around the head and body (waist up) comprising hundreds of flowers. Many are vague or incomplete but Professor Whanger of Duke University in the States claims to have found "twenty-eight" different species of "plants whose images are sufficiently clear and complete to make a good comparison with the drawings in Flora Palaestina" and of those, "Twenty grow in Jerusalem itself, and the other eight grow potentially within the close vicinity of Jerusalem" and "Twenty-seven of these twenty-eight bloom in March and April, which corresponds to the time of Passover and the Crucifixion". "Twenty-eight" different species are found on the Shroud and all twenty-eight grow in Israel. Twenty grow in Jerusalem itself, and the other eight grow potentially within the close vicinity of Jerusalem, either in the Judean Desert or in the Dead Sea area or in both. All twenty-eight would have been available in Jerusalem markets in a fresh state.
• Pollens evidence shows that it spent time in Turkey and Palestine. A total of 58 different pollens were identified on the Shroud. These pollens are native to four distinct areas around 1) the Dead Sea and the Negev, 2) the Anatolian Steppe (Edessa) of central and western Turkey, 3) the immediate environs of Constantinople, and 4) Western Europe. This shows that the object spent time in all these areas.
• The Pollen Evidence coincides with the Flower image Evidence.
• The wounds at the top of the head where created by a crown of tumbleweed a planet named gundelia tournefortii. It is an insect-pollinated plant that blooms in modern day Israel between March and May. The pollen spores lodged in the Shroud’s surface, as well as floral images mysteriously “imprinted” on the face of the cloth, could only have come from plants growing in a restricted area around Jerusalem.
• Dr. Garza-Valdes discovered oak tubules (microscopic splinters) in the blood of the occipital area (back of the head) as well as natron salts.
• Spectral Analysis of the rock dust taken from the foot area of the Shroud image is a specific Travertine matched exactly to stone found only at the Jerusalem Gate in Jerusalem and no where else. (Optical Engineer Sam Pellicori - 1978) (Dirt particles on the nose as well as on the left knee and heel.)
• Dr. Eugenia Nitowski (Utah archaeologist) in her studies of the cave tombs of Jerusalem noted the presence of Calcium Carbonate (limestone dust), the same as the limestone hills that tombs around Jerusalem were carved out of.
• The images are of the man enshrouded, coins of Pilate circa 29-32 CE. The coin images on the eyes are from the first century. They are Pilate Coins from 29 – 31 CE, specific coins of Jerusalem during the Crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth. It was a coin used in Jerusalem and nowhere else.
• The images were imprinted on the cloth after the blood and serum stains (forensic evidence).
• The mountains of forensic evidence and computer mapping of the wounds on the cloth outline clearly a picture of a brutally tortured man, one crucified in a manner specific to the biblical stories of Jesus, which was not the norm according to historians. This evidence includes the specific weapons used to inflict the wounds.
• Science deduces that there is no evidence of initial decomposition of the body, none. Even though the other evidence indicates a real corpse with rigor mortis lay within the cloth at the time of physical imprinting.
• The blood was on the Cloth before the image. The bloodstains on the Shroud are composed of hemoglobin and give a positive test for serum albumin. Numerous tests confirm this. The blood on the Shroud is real human blood, type AB (typed by Dr. Baima Ballone in Turin and confirmed in the U.S.). This blood type is rare (3.2% of the world population according to Dr. Leoncio Garza-Valdes), the highest percentage being found in northern Palestine.
• No dyes or paints or oils have been found on the Cloth. Reflectance spectra of image areas, scorched areas, and aged linen were identical (Gilbert and Gilbert, 1982). The conclusion is that all the observational methods applied by STURP failed to detect any of the historically known painting vehicles, media, or pigments, suggesting that the image was not a painting in any normal sense (Schwalbe & Rogers, 1982).
• Researchers believe that at least 50 artists were commissioned to paint replicas of the Shroud. When this process was completed the artist was allowed to then lay they're painting over the Shroud to "sanctify" them. Many excellent artists have attempted to recreate the image many of the times. These copies look like child stick drawings when compared to the original. These highly regarded paintings look nothing like the original. And why paint a shadow like negative image of Christ in the first place? And why not paint two or three, why is there only one Shroud.
It's equipment Los Alamos loans NASA when they want to examine a planetary surface for features...
Asswick.
ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
lol awesome. better and better.
especially love the last piece of evidence:
• Researchers believe that at least 50 artists were commissioned to paint replicas of the Shroud. When this process was completed the artist was allowed to then lay they're painting over the Shroud to "sanctify" them. Many excellent artists have attempted to recreate the image many of the times. These copies look like child stick drawings when compared to the original. These highly regarded paintings look nothing like the original. And why paint a shadow like negative image of Christ in the first place? And why not paint two or three, why is there only one Shroud????? (sic)
srsly guys, WHO WAS PHONE???
especially love the last piece of evidence:
• Researchers believe that at least 50 artists were commissioned to paint replicas of the Shroud. When this process was completed the artist was allowed to then lay they're painting over the Shroud to "sanctify" them. Many excellent artists have attempted to recreate the image many of the times. These copies look like child stick drawings when compared to the original. These highly regarded paintings look nothing like the original. And why paint a shadow like negative image of Christ in the first place? And why not paint two or three, why is there only one Shroud????? (sic)
srsly guys, WHO WAS PHONE???
You'd think the shroud would get more publicity considering how obviously supernatural it appears to be.
BeachBumDeac
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Blame that liberal lamestream media
The image:
So here's what we know: The image on this cloth does not have a directional lights source for shading and is created by a selective tone-browning of unknown process of a thin film of starch sustenance 1/100th the thickness of a human hair. Until recently, many believed that the tonal yellowing on the Shroud fibers were produced by a process which resulted in oxidation, dehydration and conjugation of the polysaccharide structure of the fibers of the linen itself. This has been shown to be partially incorrect. The coating, whether yellowed or clear, can be reduced with diimide or removed with adhesive leaving clear cellulose fiber underneath. This removes vapors, liquids, high-energy radiation, heat and pressure from the formation equation as currently understood in physics.
So here's what we know: The image on this cloth does not have a directional lights source for shading and is created by a selective tone-browning of unknown process of a thin film of starch sustenance 1/100th the thickness of a human hair. Until recently, many believed that the tonal yellowing on the Shroud fibers were produced by a process which resulted in oxidation, dehydration and conjugation of the polysaccharide structure of the fibers of the linen itself. This has been shown to be partially incorrect. The coating, whether yellowed or clear, can be reduced with diimide or removed with adhesive leaving clear cellulose fiber underneath. This removes vapors, liquids, high-energy radiation, heat and pressure from the formation equation as currently understood in physics.
bigdoublezero
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I brought this up before. Ignored jhmd-style.
ThinkingWithMyDeac
Well-known member
Most likely the shroud is just some alien's jizz rag they threw away when visiting, sort of like that sock you use to jerk off in Lectro.
The Vatican is missing a golden opportunity. As someone said earlier, I think we need to involve Dan Brown.