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Israel Attacked and its Response

Was just reading about Americans stuck in Gaza who can't cross through the closed Southern border. Haven't seen much reporting on this, but would be nice to see the Biden admin at least mention something about what they might be doing, if anything, to get them out.
So it does look like there was an agreement to allow Americans to leave Gaza between 12pm-5pm local time today, but it's unclear whether they've been allowed to and who's blocking them from leaving (sounds like Hamas based on chatter about the Qataris lobbying them hard to let Americans out, but still unclear)
 
Was just reading about Americans stuck in Gaza who can't cross through the closed Southern border. Haven't seen much reporting on this, but would be nice to see the Biden admin at least mention something about what they might be doing, if anything, to get them out.

Blinken has been adressing it daily.
 
Was just reading about Americans stuck in Gaza who can't cross through the closed Southern border. Haven't seen much reporting on this, but would be nice to see the Biden admin at least mention something about what they might be doing, if anything, to get them out.
Already done it sounds like. My guess is they are keeping it quiet intentionally.
 
Hamas is the name of the “elected” government party of Gazans, made up of Gazans and Palestinians, which has a military made up of Gazans. This is not an occupying force like ISIS or al Qaeda. they aren’t hiding among civilians any more than the Israeli government is hiding among civilians when they receive rocket fire from Gaza.
 
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Yeah the humanitarian concerns are obviously incredibly serious in Gaza, but what is Israel supposed to do if Hamas is hiding amongst the civilian population?
Set up a corridor out of Gaza, probably the southern one into Egypt, and allow all children and women to pass through. Give them a set amount of time to do so (7 days?).
 
Set up a corridor out of Gaza, probably the southern one into Egypt, and allow all children and women to pass through. Give them a set amount of time to do so (7 days?).
So a 3rd Nakba. That’s ethnic cleansing - it isn’t “humanitarian”. Egypt hasn’t agreed to it anyway, and why should they participate in this? Egypt pretty famously has their only problem with their Palestinian population.
 
This is not hard to understand. HAMAS does not want a two-state solution. If Israel is unable to destroy HAMAS, they will re-live more October 7ths down the road.

And it's been reported that this is why Netanyahu and his government has propped up Hamas, so they had an ongoing excuse to justify not moving forward with a two-state solution, which they also do not want.
 
Why are we quoting from the first Intafada?

In the intervening 35 years a whole hell of a lot has happened, including periods where the PLO recognized Israel and multiple peace talks were held.

If you can find some moral clarity, good for you. I’m not sure most Arabs or Israelis can, especially given the majority secular or apolitical or youth among them.
 
Like, have we erased this from our national memory 15 years ago?

 
So a 3rd Nakba. That’s ethnic cleansing - it isn’t “humanitarian”. Egypt hasn’t agreed to it anyway, and why should they participate in this? Egypt pretty famously has their only problem with their Palestinian population.
For sure that would be an issue for Egypt, and an approach they would not be very excited about. But there are not any other realistic options out of Gaza.

Regarding the "humanitarian" part - it would save lives. Israel clearly has plans to flatten Gaza, so if there is an attempt to limit civilian casualties, I don't see many other options. Which was the question I was responding to. I'm by no means saying this is the best approach - diplomacy would obviously be ideal.
 
Yeah the humanitarian concerns are obviously incredibly serious in Gaza, but what is Israel supposed to do if Hamas is hiding amongst the civilian population?

This is a basic law enforcement problem agencies are faced with every day. Yet you rarely see broad strikes against targets. You see agencies identify individuals and go find them.
 
feel like I need to reiterate that I believe all humans deserve safety. It’s a tragedy even when a soldier dies, far more a civilian. Life is precious and fragile and should be regarded as such with every decision we make.
Yes, you should reiterate this.
I have no clue how you define what’s acceptable leadership or not, but I have to assume that you tacitly accept a lot of really fucked up human rights abuses if you believe Israel has “acceptable leadership” - so let’s start from there. Tell me why Israel as a nation deserves to have safety from Palestine/Gaza. I know they want safety. Tell me why they deserve it.
Since you say you have no clue, you not only don’t have to but also shouldn’t assume. As for your demand of me, generally see the first sentence of your post immediately above. I guess this post here caught yourself with that need to reiterate.

The only path through this is a viable two state solution. Practically that has no chance of happening other than where the Palestinians and Israelis presently live. And that will require that one state cannot have as its stated goal the destruction of the other state. That state cannot align itself with states or organizations who call for the destruction of that other state. And that state will have to recognize the right of the other state to exist and agree to recognize and respect its borders. It also will require the other state to recognize the right of the first state to exist and to agree to recognize and respect its borders. And in doing so it cannot contain that state in a stockade that enables it to cut off basic human necessities at will or interfere in peaceful trade.

If the Saudis and Israelis had normalized relations the world may have had a non-zero chance of that happening years from now. The world feels like it is now many decades from that having a non-zero chance of happening.
Hamas is the name of the “elected”government party of Gazans, made up of Gazans and Palestinians, which has a military made up of Gazans. This is not an occupying force like ISIS or Al Qeada. they aren’t hiding among civilians any more than the Israeli government is hiding among civilians when they receive rocket fire from Gaza.

So Hamas, as an elected government, committed an insanely depraved act of war against a bordering nation with a vastly superior military? That same elected government (your view, not so much mine given it has been 17 years) has an obligation to its citizens to consider the geography, demographics and political realities of their situation before making any attack, much more the one it executed a week ago. It has either failed miserably in its obligations to consider the safety of its own citizens or purposefully placed them in mortal danger. Sophistry of thought.

And that doesn’t mean it is acceptable for Israel to cut off food, water and power or give 1M civilians just 24 hours notice to move a dozen or more miles towards some added safety (absolutely absurd if it holds). And it also isn’t acceptable for Hamas to tell people to stay in place or to set up checkpoints turning them back.

I’ll leave you with this. Seems like someone experienced who thinks critically.

 
Like, have we erased this from our national memory 15 years ago?


Shorty never bothered to think about that. Ripped some link straight from his Twitter feed while drinking his morning coffee.
 
I don't see many other options. Which was the question I was responding to. I'm by no means saying this is the best approach - diplomacy would obviously be ideal.
American should enforce its leverage as an ally and chief military supporter to Israel and intervene if necessary. We play world police everywhere else, should we not prevent the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?
 
American should enforce its leverage as an ally and chief military supporter to Israel and intervene if necessary. We play world police everywhere else, should we not prevent the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?

Never again but not that
 
This seems a very opportune time to buy some goodwill with Muslims worldwide, the same ones we claim hate America and the American way of life.
 
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