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Israel Attacked and its Response

avalon said:
So, no defense for the Israeli's PM support of Hamas? Just an absurd claim that the moderate US President is really super progressive?

OK, I'm done then. Not interested in arguing with someone who will always return to what they want to believe.
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Oh yeah?!?! Then how do you explain Rosevelt’s stance on Japan? Huh? Tell me that, Avalon!!
 
The fixation on prefacing all commentary by condemning Hamas is very transparently a demand to approve of or at least ignore the historical atrocities and injustices committed by the state of Israel against the Palestinian people.

“If you want to comment on the conflict between Israel and Hamas you first have to say, free of context, that Israel did not deserve to be attacked by Hamas.”

No, I won’t say that. I’ll say it’s a tragedy when anyone is murdered, and it’s a tragedy when a state or a people enter into a conflict that endangers civilian lives through the very likely risk of retaliation.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
The fixation on prefacing all commentary by condemning Hamas is very transparently a demand to approve of or at least ignore the historical atrocities and injustices committed by the state of Israel against the Palestinian people.

“If you want to comment on the conflict between Israel and Hamas you first have to say, free of context, that Israel did not deserve to be attacked by Hamas.”

No, I won’t say that. I’ll say it’s a tragedy when anyone is murdered, and it’s a tragedy when a state or a people enter into a conflict that endangers civilian lives through the very likely risk of retaliation.
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[centerdeac]Why do you hate trans people?[/centerdeac]
 
english.palinfo.com

Hamas: We are studying the new Cairo proposal over Gaza

The Hamas Movement said the last Israeli ceasefire proposal it received from Qatari and Egyptian mediators did not meet any of the demands already submitted by the Palestinian resistance factions in the Gaza Strip.
english.palinfo.com english.palinfo.com

“The Hamas Movement said the last Israeli ceasefire proposal it received from Qatari and Egyptian mediators did not meet any of the demands already submitted by the Palestinian resistance factions in the Gaza Strip.

However, the Movement said on Tuesday that it would study the proposal, which it described as “intransigent,” and deliver its response to mediators at the Cairo talks, reiterating its keenness on reaching a deal ending the Israeli aggression against its people.

According to media sources, the three-part proposal would halt fighting for six weeks to facilitate an exchange of captives held by the resistance for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails and detention centers.

The proposal calls for a deal that allows the return of unarmed displaced civilians to northern Gaza, without specifying their numbers. It also includes the Israeli occupation army’s withdrawal from al-Rashid and Salahuddin streets and the relocation of its troops to a nearby area, which is only 500 meters away from the streets.

At the first stage of the deal, if accepted, 500 aid trucks will be allowed into all areas of the Gaza Strip, while Israel will release 900 prisoners, including 100 serving life sentences in exchange for 40 Israeli detainees.

The deal’s second stage is said to include the release of all Israeli captives as a prelude to finalizing talks for a permanent ceasefire agreement.

However, the proposal did not include the number of the Palestinian prisoners that should be released at the second stage or any reference to the Israel army’s withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

At the third stage, the resistance is demanded to release the bodies of Israeli prisoners killed during the war in Gaza, according to the proposal.

In this regard, a senior Hamas official accused the Israelis of persisting in putting obstacles in the way of reaching a ceasefire agreement over Gaza.

The Hamas official explained that the Israeli response in the Cairo negotiations called for the return of displaced civilians to shelter camps set up by international organizations and not to their areas and homes.

Such return of displaced citizens, according to the Israeli response, is unsafe and takes place through Israeli-controlled checkpoints, while Hamas insists on their return to their areas without any restrictions, the official added.

He also highlighted that the new proposal does not include a permanent ceasefire or the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza.”
 
amp.cnn.com

Hamas tells negotiators it doesn’t have 40 Israeli hostages needed for first round of ceasefire | CNN

Hamas has indicated it is currently unable to identify and track down 40 Israeli hostages needed for the first phase of a ceasefire deal, according to an Israeli official and a source familiar with the discussions, raising fears that more hostages may be dead than are publicly known.
amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com

“Hamas has told international mediators – which include Qatar and Egypt - it does not have 40 living hostages who match those criteria for release, both sources said…

CNN’s record of the conditions of the hostages also suggests there are fewer than 40 living hostages who meet the proposed criteria.

The inability - or unwillingness - of Hamas to tell Israel which hostages would be released, alive, is a major obstacle, the second source added.

With Hamas appearing to be unable to reach 40 in the proposed categories, Israel has pushed for Hamas to fill out the initial release with younger male hostages, including soldiers, the Israeli official said.

The majority of the almost 100 hostages who remain alive are believed to be male IDF soldiers or men of military reserve age. Hamas is expected to try to use to them in later phases to try to negotiate more significant concessions, including more high-level prisoners and a permanent end to the war.“
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
amp.cnn.com

Hamas tells negotiators it doesn’t have 40 Israeli hostages needed for first round of ceasefire | CNN

Hamas has indicated it is currently unable to identify and track down 40 Israeli hostages needed for the first phase of a ceasefire deal, according to an Israeli official and a source familiar with the discussions, raising fears that more hostages may be dead than are publicly known.
amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com

“Hamas has told international mediators – which include Qatar and Egypt - it does not have 40 living hostages who match those criteria for release, both sources said…

CNN’s record of the conditions of the hostages also suggests there are fewer than 40 living hostages who meet the proposed criteria.

The inability - or unwillingness - of Hamas to tell Israel which hostages would be released, alive, is a major obstacle, the second source added.

With Hamas appearing to be unable to reach 40 in the proposed categories, Israel has pushed for Hamas to fill out the initial release with younger male hostages, including soldiers, the Israeli official said.

The majority of the almost 100 hostages who remain alive are believed to be male IDF soldiers or men of military reserve age. Hamas is expected to try to use to them in later phases to try to negotiate more significant concessions, including more high-level prisoners and a permanent end to the war.“
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That really feels like a problem to me.
 
bym051d said:
That really feels like a problem to me.
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I still don’t really understand it - Is the hold up that Hamas doesn’t have (40) of those types of hostages to release, or that Hamas is lying and doesn’t want to release that many? If Hamas says “we only found 36” would that be considered rejecting the ceasefire agreement?
 
It seems like they don't have 40 living remaining. Or, they can't get a hold of that many because they allowed other groups they have no control over to participate.

Either one when there are children remaining is beyond awful.
 
They raped them dead. It's not hard to figure out why they don't have the collateral.
 
Your language on this thread and referring to trans folks on the other make you sound like an edgy 15 year old
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I still don’t really understand it - Is the hold up that Hamas doesn’t have (40) of those types of hostages to release, or that Hamas is lying and doesn’t want to release that many? If Hamas says “we only found 36” would that be considered rejecting the ceasefire agreement?
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My guess is that Hamas doesn't have 40 of those types of hostages to release either because there aren't 40 living hostages meeting the criteria or because some number of these hostages are being held be decentralized groups over which they have no control, like bym suggested.

From a negotiation standpoint it wouldn't make sense for them to lie about the number of hostages they have available to exchange by reducing the number. Their position would be strengthened by being able to say they have the requisite number of hostages ready to go, but want more in exchange for them or to negotiate the number down. Saying they can't even meet the 40 is extremely poor positioning and I don't think they'd want to tip their hand on that unless it's actually true. But I might be assuming too much rational acting.

I also would not be surprised if the IDF has a pretty good grasp on the number of living hostages that Hamas has the authority/ability to exchange and are pushing for a number that they know is going to be a stretch. But that's just wild speculation on my part.
 
So it’s 20 guys serving a life sentence per one hostage ? Sweet deal there


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Hamas killed all the hostages. Hezbollah is raining missiles on the Iron Dome. Our intelligence says an Iranian attack is coming within 72 hours.

When the leftists call out for support, I'll calmly respond, "no." My vote for Biden depends on this.
 
centerdeac said:
Hamas killed all the hostages. Hezbollah is raining missiles on the Iron Dome. Our intelligence says an Iranian attack is coming within 72 hours.

When the leftists call out for support, I'll calmly respond, "no." My vote for Biden depends on this.
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Thought you were voting for Obama a third time? (Conveniently, with him never being on the ballot any of the three times).

Also since we are for the first time seriously considering this awful possibility six months into the conflict, are you still going to argue that Israel ever prioritized rescuing the hostages?
 
So since Hamas killed the hostages, Israel is to blame. Idiocy.

My hatred of Trump is irrelevant. Still won't vote for him even if Joe crumbles. I'll just vote 3rd party.
 
So Hamas has been keeping hostages in Gaza. Israel has been bombing the hell out of Gaza. So Hamas alone killed the hostages?
 
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