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Just the Facts: John Groce is Overrated as a Head Coach....

Bobcat Grad

Bobcat Grad

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"and although Groce knows the Big Ten from his time as an assistant with the Ohio St. Buckeyes from 2004-2008, he only managed a 34-30 record at Ohio and has never finished higher than third-place in the MAC"

http://chicago.sbnation.com/illinois-fighting-illini/2012/3/27/2905717/john-groce-illinois-illini-head-coach

I don't know why in the world any Big 10 or ACC school would want to hire a basketball or football coach with a .500 record from the MAC? Groce's assistants are horrible and we end up having thread after thread about how bad the assistants are and why we wish Groce was not so loyal. I would hate for Illinois or Wake Forest Fans to have to endure this so we are willing to keep Groce and his horrible assistant coaches as a "Public Service".
 
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OK. We'll just get dibs on Grode. I don't know where he is but there's got to be one up there after Grobe and Groce.
 
So just go to every message board in the country, try to convince the fan base that Groce is a bad coach (which he's not), and then have that negative momentum leave Groce as the head coach of Ohio. Brilliant, except it's not.
 
If he is overrated, then multiple people have a high opinion of him. That is not something you can say about our current coach. We would take Groce happily.
 
It's interesting that Illinois feels entitled to hire a "more established" head coach. Goes back to my other thread -- aside from Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart, who seem to be pretty content in their current situations right now, there aren't any sure-thing mid-major coaches. Groce seems to be on that next tier below, along with perhaps Gregg Marshall (who seems to be a challenging personality). Then you have another tier of guys for whom the jury is still very much out -- Lehigh coach, Bucknell coach, etc. There just aren't a ton of hot names.

Combine that with the fact that coaches at high major programs just don't move around very much. With rare exceptions, for a guy to move from one high major to another basically appears to require one of the following situations: (1) taking job at alma mater or where you have pre-existing relationship (e.g., Bob Huggins, Roy Williams, Mike Anderson); (2) taking a job at a traditional powerhouse program (e.g., Ben Howland, Tom Crean, John Calipari, Bill Self, Mark Turgeon); (3) escaping an unhappy/tenuous relationship with AD or fanbase (Frank Martin, Frank Haith, Oliver Purnell). You occasionally get the situation where a coach leaves a job at a high major school without a basketball tradition for another job that is not a traditional powerhouse, but does have a better basketball tradition (Jeff [Redacted], Tony Bennett, John Beilein), but even those seem to be rare.

In general, high major schools who aren't UNC, UCLA, Indiana, Kentucky, or Kansas hire mid-major coaches. Billy Donovan, Tom Izzo, and Jay Wright don't leave their schools to coach at NC State, Illinois, or Wake Forest. Illinois fans ought to understand that, and we should remember that the next time Wake Forest goes hunting for a new coach.
 
Illinois set to name their new coach at 4:00 today. Most think it's Groce.

EDIT: Never mind, Illinois beat writer says it's just a rumor and they're still deciding on a coach.
 
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Not so fast on Jay Wright. The Big East is going to turn into something wholly painful to the ass for every coach travelling all over the country to play away conference games against ... SMU and BYU and whatever schools they cull together.
 
Say Hey Deac said:
It's interesting that Illinois feels entitled to hire a "more established" head coach. Goes back to my other thread -- aside from Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart, who seem to be pretty content in their current situations right now, there aren't any sure-thing mid-major coaches. Groce seems to be on that next tier below, along with perhaps Gregg Marshall (who seems to be a challenging personality). Then you have another tier of guys for whom the jury is still very much out -- Lehigh coach, Bucknell coach, etc. There just aren't a ton of hot names.

Combine that with the fact that coaches at high major programs just don't move around very much. With rare exceptions, for a guy to move from one high major to another basically appears to require one of the following situations: (1) taking job at alma mater or where you have pre-existing relationship (e.g., Bob Huggins, Roy Williams, Mike Anderson); (2) taking a job at a traditional powerhouse program (e.g., Ben Howland, Tom Crean, John Calipari, Bill Self, Mark Turgeon); (3) escaping an unhappy/tenuous relationship with AD or fanbase (Frank Martin, Frank Haith, Oliver Purnell). You occasionally get the situation where a coach leaves a job at a high major school without a basketball tradition for another job that is not a traditional powerhouse, but does have a better basketball tradition (Jeff [Redacted], Tony Bennett, John Beilein), but even those seem to be rare.

In general, high major schools who aren't UNC, UCLA, Indiana, Kentucky, or Kansas hire mid-major coaches. Billy Donovan, Tom Izzo, and Jay Wright don't leave their schools to coach at NC State, Illinois, or Wake Forest. Illinois fans ought to understand that, and we should remember that the next time Wake Forest goes hunting for a new coach.
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Good post.

Sitting here watching the Blackhawks game, and they said in the pregame local Chicago sports bit that Groce to Illinois is basically done. Apparently a press conference has been delayed, however, because some of the Trustees are upset about something.
 
Missed opportunity. Again.
 
Pretty sure we never even inquired. Wellman is "all in" on Bzz. I hold zero hope for this program until he is officially fired. Our recruiting class is playing with house money next season, because our hope and expectations are at absolute rock bottom. It's too bad they will have to deal with the corresponding apathy that goes along with that lack of hope. What can you do with a lame duck coach, zero height, and no depth?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Pretty sure we never even inquired. Wellman is "all in" on Bzz. I hold zero hope for this program until he is officially fired. Our recruiting class is playing with house money next season, because our hope and expectations are at absolute rock bottom. It's too bad they will have to deal with the corresponding apathy that goes along with that lack of hope. What can you do with a lame duck coach, zero height, and no depth?
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Ive said it before, but I honestly think whoever we hire after Bzz (assuming RW is still here and Bzz isn't still here giving Wellman blumpkins for eternity) will be handcuffed by RW and the administration.. Hell even Bzz would probably be better if he didnt have RW trying to micromanage and dissect his game-plan, recruiting, player relationships, etc.. Until the leadership, or lack thereof, commits to winning at all costs (within reason), we will be mediocre at best for the long-term..
 
That's why Wellman is going to need to go as well. Any AD who is on the record saying this is the right direction for a basketball program can't be trusted to hire a new coach and oversee the program going forward.
 
The Groce to Illinois thing is kind of crazy. We're here lamenting a missed opportunity, and yet Groce was Illinois' 3rd choice apparently. Stupid Illinoisans.
 
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