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Kerry draws another "red line" in the sand

I'm looking forward to seeing a workable plan that results in Syria turning over their chemical weapons in the middle of a civil war without the West having to send in massive amounts of troops to secure/occupy the areas where the weapons are held or get involved in the war in any way.
 
In other news, Syria has a reprieve now so they are back to bombing:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/10/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE9880HY20130910
Syria seeks reprieve from U.S. strikes with Russia plan

While the diplomatic wrangling was under way in far-flung capitals, Assad's warplanes bombed rebellious districts inside the Damascus city limits on Tuesday for the first time since the August 21 poison gas attacks. Rebels said the strikes demonstrated that the government had concluded the West had lost its nerve.
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I am looking at this point for any workable plan that doesn't involve us launching missiles at empty buildings.
 
Wrangor said:
Unreal.... Obama has been completely owned in this entire debate. Putin has all the power and is completely directing this entire discussion. He stopped the bombing, now he is controlling the solution. I am glad we probably won't bomb Syria, but Obama was made to look pretty foolish.

First he went begging the world to support our bombing (DENIED)
Then he went begging his country to support our bombing (DENIED)
Then he went begging our congress (TEPID SUPPORT...unsure outcome)
Then his secretary of state makes a sarcastic off hand comment, and Putin completely redirects the debate to focus on a solution that is beneficial to both Russia and Syria.

Russia is in control, Syria is not bombed, Obama administration is portrayed as the aggressor if he does anything. Basically we were pwned by our chief international rivals. The solution is good because we aren't going to bomb like Obama wanted, but the only reason we aren't going down the road of entering another war is because pretty much everyone outside of France, RJ, and BKF denied Obama's attempts to bomb Syria.
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Russia would have NEVER done this without our threat to attack Syria. They stood idly by as Assad used chemical weapons. They supported him after he did it.

Without our threats, none of Assad would never have admitted to having the chemical weapons. He would have never even thought about giving them up.
 
Wrangor said:
I am looking at this point for any workable plan that doesn't involve us launching missiles at empty buildings.
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I am looking at this point for any workable plan that doesn't involve us having to choose between supporting a maniacal dictator who bombs (and possibly uses chemical weapons) on his own people or a group of loosely affiliated rebel factions with known ties to terrorist organizations who exhibit distaste and contempt for the US, all the while trying to remain concerned about the welfare of a large number of Syrian civilians who at the end of the day would rather be able to buy bread and run a business without fear of losing their life, home, or family... at this point, it's like debating who would you rather have lead your team... Buzz or Lobo...
 
WPDeac said:
I am looking at this point for any workable plan that doesn't involve us having to choose between supporting a maniacal dictator who bombs (and possibly uses chemical weapons) on his own people or a group of loosely affiliated rebel factions with known ties to terrorist organizations who exhibit distaste and contempt for the US, all the while trying to remain concerned about the welfare of a large number of Syrian civilians who at the end of the day would rather be able to buy bread and run a business without fear of losing their life, home, or family... at this point, it's like debating who would you rather have lead your team... Buzz or Lobo...
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If we don't get involved in the first place we don't have to choose sides.
 
Funny, you supported taking sides and sending US GIs to die in Iraq.
 
moon, do you actually think would have acted without our threats?

If you, I've got some ocean front property in Kansas for you.
 
if the chem weapons are secured - still a big if, but assume they are - then our allies Israel, Turkey, Jordan, and sort of ally Iraq no longer have a next door neighbor with WMD. This is clearly a positive development and a quite unexpected win for our side. Even if Obama and Kerry look like idiots in the way they have managed this, the security situation has materially improved for our allies and our interests if those weapons are off the table.

Past that, if I was in charge I would keep the fleet on station to "monitor developments" and spend 100 Tomahawk missiles worth of money on humanitarian aid to the refugees. That aid would have a big fat "Gift of the US of A" printed in Arabic on every single bandage, MRE, bandaid, and pencil. Then I would wait and see. At this point, it's too late to buy influence with the rebels. Even the ones who aren't Al Qaeda are mad at us now. Helping Assad is off the table. Let it be known that we reserve the right to Tomahawk, drone, or SEAL team anybody who commits atrocities, sit back, and hope whatever assholes come out on top can be dealt with.
 
Guys guys this clearly was all part of a well crafted master plan and everyone fell for Obama's elaborate hoax. Step 1 was pissing off all of congress through the first 5 years of his presidency, step 2 was appointing that crafty politician Kerry way back and knowing he would be a prime part of this rouse when the time came, step 3 was drawing a red line months ago, step 4 was allowing repeated crossing of the red line for months, step 5 was finally acknowledging the red line and deciding we were going to strike Syria, step 6 was talking about striking Syria without a concrete plan on how to do it, step 7 was to allow mass confusion on who actually was responsible for the attacks, step 8 was knowing the do nothing congress which he had been playing since day 1 of his presidency would fail to uphold his plan to strike and thus deferred to them, step 9 was having Kerry make a snide off hand comment, step 10 was having Russia and Syria fall right into the trap, step 11 is where we are now with Russia and Syria offering a way out without bombing. This guy is an incredible tactician and political mastermind, well done Mr Obama, well done.
 
RJKarl said:
Funny, you supported taking sides and sending US GIs to die in Iraq.
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Yes I did, it was wrong. Amazingly since the age 19 I have matured. Certain people improve their mind as they age and certain people lose their mind as they age.

First lesson is never get involved in a land war in Asia, Second is to stay out of the Middle East whenever we have an opportunity to not get directly involved. When your options are a leader that is killing his own people or rebels that a large percentage want to declare holy war against the US - then I think it is probably an excellent time to let them kill each other.
 
Deacon923 said:
if the chem weapons are secured - still a big if, but assume they are - then our allies Israel, Turkey, Jordan, and sort of ally Iraq no longer have a next door neighbor with WMD. This is clearly a positive development and a quite unexpected win for our side. Even if Obama and Kerry look like idiots in the way they have managed this, the security situation has materially improved for our allies and our interests if those weapons are off the table.

Past that, if I was in charge I would keep the fleet on station to "monitor developments" and spend 100 Tomahawk missiles worth of money on humanitarian aid to the refugees. That aid would have a big fat "Gift of the US of A" printed in Arabic on every single bandage, MRE, bandaid, and pencil. Then I would wait and see. At this point, it's too late to buy influence with the rebels. Even the ones who aren't Al Qaeda are mad at us now. Helping Assad is off the table. Let it be known that we reserve the right to Tomahawk, drone, or SEAL team anybody who commits atrocities, sit back, and hope whatever assholes come out on top can be dealt with.
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I would vote for you. Watch and wait. Send aid. If we secure weapons great, if we don't I didn't expect it anyway. Chemical weapons are not difficult to manufacture. They will always be available in some form or fashion. They aren't even necessary to kill thousands of people. Sarin gas sucks, but so does a drone strike. Both are equally effective at eliminating life. I am not a pacifist, but we need to learn from the past 2 decades. We aren't making ground on the radicals. We are creating more than we kill. We don't need to surrender, but we do need to re-evaluate our strategy. We can be strong and generous. In fact it is only with this kind of strategy do I ever see us making headway at eliminating the growing hatred of the West from fanatically conservative societies.
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
Guys guys this clearly was all part of a well crafted master plan and everyone fell for Obama's elaborate hoax. Step 1 was pissing off all of congress through the first 5 years of his presidency, step 2 was appointing that crafty politician Kerry way back and knowing he would be a prime part of this rouse when the time came, step 3 was drawing a red line months ago, step 4 was allowing repeated crossing of the red line for months, step 5 was finally acknowledging the red line and deciding we were going to strike Syria, step 6 was talking about striking Syria without a concrete plan on how to do it, step 7 was to allow mass confusion on who actually was responsible for the attacks, step 8 was knowing the do nothing congress which he had been playing since day 1 of his presidency would fail to uphold his plan to strike and thus deferred to them, step 9 was having Kerry make a snide off hand comment, step 10 was having Russia and Syria fall right into the trap, step 11 is where we are now with Russia and Syria offering a way out without bombing. This guy is an incredible tactician and political mastermind, well done Mr Obama, well done.
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You are just scared that people will see the genius of Obama. Typical RW Hater. I would expect this sort of vitriol from other posters, but not from you.
 
We AREN'T getting involved in a land war in Asia. What part of that don't you understand?

We are about to disarm a very bad guy (from on of 5 countries who didn't sign the chemical weapons treaty) from his chemical weapons without a shot being fired.

This is well beyond the scope of what we hoped for before yesterday, but you still want find something bad about this.
 
1. You totally missed the land war in Asia comment
2. I have said this is a great development. I give Putin a lot of credit. He navigated these waters to perfection. He stood up against Military attack (which is what we wanted), and figured out a diplomatic solution. All the while he maintains the power, and Assad gets to keep killing the rebels (just has to do it with conventional weapons).

This is great news. We aren't going to bomb empty buildings.
 
explain the empty buildings meme, I missed that. Do you mean they have moved them and no one knows where they are, hence empty buildings?
 
Of course I have. We used that saying long before the movie....when playing Risk in the New Dorm.
 
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