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Law School is a sham

Not really. But there is a tipping point depending on how much you make vs how much you owe. Working for likely less than 60k a year for 10 years is going to put a decent damper on your future.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
All I said was that taking advantage of loan forgiveness limits your job opportunities. That is as true now as it was 7 years ago.
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Yeah we agree on that. My point is that it is likely more people will enter the program in a shitty market. If 100K jobs are falling off trees, then paying $500 a month towards loans isnt that big of a deal.
 
Got in to Columbia with my 171/3.6 so must really be a down year for applications #humblebrag
 
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Congratulations. That's one of those places still worth going to.
 
MysteryMen said:
Got in to Columbia with my 171/3.6 so must really be a down year for applications #humblebrag
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Not THAT surprising. I had similar numbers (slightly higher gpa) back when apps were up and was wait listed (didn't stay on it so no idea if I would've gotten in)
 
I'm still glad I went to law school. Had a great time, made great friends, and like being a lawyer. Wish it would have been free? Sure, but it's not like it was a surprise when I graduated with $125k in debt.
 
I enjoy being a lawyer and am glad that I went to law school and got my LLM in tax. However, the tax side of estate planning has changed so much from the time that I started law school (and I seriously doubt the it will go back) that I'm wondering if I want to move more towards tax controversy work.
 
DeaconCav06 said:
Congratulations. That's one of those places still worth going to.
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Thanks, I was pretty ecstatic when I got the letter for that exact reason. Makes me feel a lot better about my decision to go to law school
 
DeaconCav06 said:
I enjoy being a lawyer and am glad that I went to law school and got my LLM in tax. However, the tax side of estate planning has changed so much from the time that I started law school (and I seriously doubt the it will go back) that I'm wondering if I want to move more towards tax controversy work.
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I would say only if you are not easily frustrated. The IRS has cut back on a lot of their knowledgeable resolution staff, so you are basically dealing with high school graduates who do not understand much of anything about the tax code until you either (a) get to the Appeals level so are dealing primarily with the Ogden, Utah center, or (b) are lucky enough to have the matter transfered to your local metro office so while you may not be dealing with the sharpest tool in the shed, at least you are dealing with one consistent person and their supervisors. Anything coming out of Philadelphia, Cincinnati, or Memphis is a fucking trainwreck, they just ell you what the "system" tells them and have no ability/authority to think for themselves.
The other thing about tax controversy work is that you need to get really good about estimating the total long-term amount of your fees and getting everything up front from almost everyone but extremely well-heeled potential clients. Otherwise, if they didn't pay the IRS, chances are they aren't going to pay you.
 
I appreciate that advice and based on the limited controversy work I've done it seems spot on. The two times I've slammed my phone or cursed in my office have been on phone calls with the IRS. And that's it I'm lucky enough to actually get through. Multiple times I've been on hold for 2+ hours only to have them transfer me and then hang up on me instead.
 
Manifest Destiny said:
Should I do this duel mba program? Trying to decide its a sham.
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I'd like to hear stories of dual MBA success. My gf is in the process of getting a JD-MBA and she has found it very frustrating. Personally, I think it is a sham. I don't think anyone should be admitted to an MBA program, dual or otherwise, without job experience. In my opinion, if it is law you want to do primarily, then it is not a huge leg-up. If you want to do business primarily, then you fall into a frustrating no-mans land where you don't quite fit the easy check-list of what a lot of employers seem to be looking for (assuming you went straight from undergrad to law school with a liberal arts degree and no real job experience). So if you do it, know what kind of jobs you are looking for and how you are going to tailor your pitch for how your dual degree and experience is going to add value. Now, if you are a smart guy and you kill it in either of your law or MBA program, doors will open no matter what. If you are getting grades in the fat part of the bell curve then I am not sure adding more years and more debt to get an additional degree is desirable.
 
Go said:
Depends on what you want to do? My 3 buddies who have done it have had some great successes.
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I'm honestly not sure. I'm leaning more towards the business side of things than being a general counsel type. Consulting interests me. What do your buddies do? I'm trying to nail down some ideas so I can start getting aggressive with looking for jobs

P4nthers11 said:
I'd like to hear stories of dual MBA success. My gf is in the process of getting a JD-MBA and she has found it very frustrating. Personally, I think it is a sham. I don't think anyone should be admitted to an MBA program, dual or otherwise, without job experience. In my opinion, if it is law you want to do primarily, then it is not a huge leg-up. If you want to do business primarily, then you fall into a frustrating no-mans land where you don't quite fit the easy check-list of what a lot of employers seem to be looking for (assuming you went straight from undergrad to law school with a liberal arts degree and no real job experience). So if you do it, know what kind of jobs you are looking for and how you are going to tailor your pitch for how your dual degree and experience is going to add value. Now, if you are a smart guy and you kill it in either of your law or MBA program, doors will open no matter what. If you are getting grades in the fat part of the bell curve then I am not sure adding more years and more debt to get an additional degree is desirable.
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This has been my general idea of the program as well. I have a few yeRs work experience but nothing of real consequence. If I do the duel program, I want to have a specific path in mind first or otherwise I think the challenges you mentioned would definitely hit me hard.
 
2 are in investment banking and the JD gave them a bump up in management levels.

1 is a business/corporate attorney

All 3 had connections and used their extra years of schooling to network.
 
Go said:
2 are in investment banking and the JD gave them a bump up in management levels.

1 is a business/corporate attorney

All 3 had connections and used their extra years of schooling to network.
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I'd love to get in IB but don't have a finance background from undergrad. I definitely agree that the extra year gives you a leg up to network. Any of the IB dudes live in ATL/southeast?
 
I've met many a lawyer that did a jd/mba program and didn't really seem to matter outside of making their profile page on their firm's website look sweet

But in those cases, those guys all chose to be lawyers
 
I've said it before on this thread, but anybody in a dual degree program immediately gets axed from my OCI interview resume list at the same time people with awful grades get axed. Two primary reasons: (A) if you don't know with as much certainty as possible that you want to actually be a lawyer, then I'm not hiring you to pay you figure that out; and (B) I'm not going to spend a shit ton of money and time training you for a few years, only to have you jump in house or to the business world when you finally start becoming productive and useful.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I've said it before on this thread, but anybody in a dual degree program immediately gets axed from my OCI interview resume list at the same time people with awful grades get axed. Two primary reasons: (A) if you don't know with as much certainty as possible that you want to actually be a lawyer, then I'm not hiring you to pay you figure that out; and (B) I'm not going to spend a shit ton of money and time training you for a few years, only to have you jump in house or to the business world when you finally start becoming productive and useful.
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That's pretty much everything Ive heard from lawyers. I'm basically picking to be out of law if i make that jump.
 
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