Louisville Move to ACC Not a Done Deal Yet?

[Deacfreak07]

I didn't mean to derail this into re-hashing decades-old arguments about expansion. That said, it is the same old argument, just in another decade. Heard it all when FSU came in back in 92. ACC will be a powerhouse; ACC will be more competitive; everyone will improve with FSU's presence. Didn't work then and so far it's not working now either. The last couple of weeks are perhaps an exception but college football as a whole has lost quite a few powerhouse teams that in years past were competitive for the title right up until the last week. Now, Alabama is pre-ordained and the only question is who is going to limp into #2 or 3. But it's silly to think the ACC is some kind of football powerhouse conference.

ACC football did improve when FSU came in. A lot. Not sure your argument here. Will the ACC ever be as good as the SEC? No, but who will?

 

[94Deac]

Wait, you were how old in 92? If you think ACC football improved due to FSU's presence, you were too young to know the reality. Yeah, I played the age card. But I'm a grumpy old SOB. So I'll just say fuck Louisville (and Pitino) before I go yell at those goddamned kids on my lawn.

BTW, there's a reason this shirt universally gets laughs.

 

[scooter84]

No Wake anger. Just reality. What's the ACC's record in BCS games? What happens when we have marquee games on national, prime-time TV? FSU-Miami was really great this year. And that's what people are waiting for in this conference- is an FSU or Miami or even Clemson to be nationally competitive for the BCS Championship. It's not happening. If anything, years when there appears to be an ACC contender are typically disappointing years for Wake. Yeah, we had a great run in 2006 but the universal tenor in sports media was that it clearly meant the ACC was down- way down. And mentioning basketball in anything relating to being better in an expanded conference is laughable. Shit, I'd almost bet that 7/10 ACC fans or even students can't name all the ACC members without pausing, needing a hint, or getting it wrong. Expansion has diluted what was already seen as a weak conference. We have a whole generation of Wake students who really don't give a shit about Carolina any more. And that's not because we lose to them- it's because we don't even get to play them anymore. But it's okay, right- we're all getting paid so go ACC.

I am not sure what your point is. Most of the things you mention are true of all the conferences now. They have all suffered through major expansion and shuffling such that it is hard to keep all the teams straight. Every conference has the issue of playing other conference teams more rarely, no more round robins, etc. This is a by-product of the mega-conference era, driven by TV revenue and football. I don't like it, in a curmudgeonly way, but the ACC was not going to avoid it and survive.

As for the strength of the conference, well, it is true we are not a football powerhouse and have had some down years. But I think we are on the way back up, as a conference, and are bringing in some strong programs to bolster it further. As for basketball, I think the strength of the conference is going to be ridiculous. We should be back to being to basketball what the SEC is to football.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Wait, you were how old in 92? If you think ACC football improved due to FSU's presence, you were too young to know the reality. Yeah, I played the age card. But I'm a grumpy old SOB. So I'll just say fuck Louisville (and Pitino) before I go yell at those goddamned kids on my lawn.

BTW, there's a reason this shirt universally gets laughs.

National Championships is the metric that tends to tip the scales to the SEC (deservedly). FSU won 40% of the ACC National Championships in their time in the league.

Year School Notes
1953 Maryland AP, Coaches, UPI
1981 Clemson AP, Coaches, UPI
1990 Georgia Tech Coaches
1993 Florida State AP, Coaches
1999 Florida State AP, BCS, Coaches

Just because I was about 8 years old when FSU joined doesn't mean I'm incapable of looking at historical data. I get that change sucks and the ACC "feels" worse, but to pretend that adding FSU was bad for the ACC is just not being honest.

 

[Buttermaker]

There is no hold up on Maryland leaving. The lawsuit isn't seeking an injunction on the move from the ACC, it's seeking a declaratory judgment that Maryland has to pay the liquidated damages the ACC believes they are entitled. I have no idea how the suit matters whatsoever with regards to Maryland leaving.

What is MD's argument against having to pay the full $50m as per league agreement? On a slightly related note, whatever happened to DonaldRoss? Ah the old days when he would regale us with posts from mid-air on his way back from a Big East suit hearing in Hartford.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I don't think he's saying that we should be a powerhouse, or that adding FSU was bad, he's saying that adding FSU didnt make us a better football conference.

Heard it all when FSU came in back in 92. ACC will be a powerhouse; ACC will be more competitive; everyone will improve with FSU's presence. Didn't work then and so far it's not working now either.

In adding FSU we went from a terrible football conference to a terrible conference with a really good team in it. Does Kentucky make the SEC a good or better basketball conference? Hardly. Speaking strictly of quality, not monetary value, FSU's membership hasn't made the rest of the conference better at football. The original 8 has relatively no meaningful football accomplishments since 1992.

 

[bym051d]

What is MD's argument against having to pay the full $50m as per league agreement? On a slightly related note, whatever happened to DonaldRoss? Ah the old days when he would regale us with posts from mid-air on his way back from a Big East suit hearing in Hartford.

They didn't vote for it, so they don't have to pay it. Or, they're a sovereign State, so they're not held to the agreement.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

What is MD's argument against having to pay the full $50m as per league agreement? On a slightly related note, whatever happened to DonaldRoss? Ah the old days when he would regale us with posts from mid-air on his way back from a Big East suit hearing in Hartford.

Their major argument if the case gets past procedural hurdles is that the liquidated damages were not a reasonable or good faith estimate of actual sustained damages for the conference. Under NC law liquidated damages cannot be upheld if they're determined to be punitive in nature.

It's unlikely their sovereignty argument holds much water in a NC court since it's pretty well established law that a party cannot claim this immunity if they enter the forum state and engage in a contract which has remedies for violating the contract. I think it's pretty sound public policy since any university or state could then break contracts whenever they wanted and not have to pay contracted damages simply by claiming 11th amendment immunity.

 

[siff]

FSU is ready to compete for a national championship this year.

Actually, they're not. But that's OK, because they're pretty close.

 

[DiegoTiger]

Actually, they're not. But that's OK, because they're pretty close.

Oh, they're not?

 

[Buttermaker]

Their major argument if the case gets past procedural hurdles is that the liquidated damages were not a reasonable or good faith estimate of actual sustained damages for the conference. Under NC law liquidated damages cannot be upheld if they're determined to be punitive in nature.

It's unlikely their sovereignty argument holds much water in a NC court since it's pretty well established law that a party cannot claim this immunity if they enter the forum state and engage in a contract which has remedies for violating the contract. I think it's pretty sound public policy since any university or state could then break contracts whenever they wanted and not have to pay contracted damages simply by claiming 11th amendment immunity.

Thanks counselor

 

[Liquid Karma]

Actually, they're not. But that's OK, because they're pretty close.

Say what?