Manning's future

[WakeForest Fan]

What a terrible post.

yep. worst post i've probably viewed on these boards. completely off base.

 

[deaconson]

[Redacted] and [redacted part deux] showed the same flaws on day one that they did on their last day. That is what amazes me. So many people keep saying you have to give a coach time to get their recruits, schemes etc in place. I would agree as long as you see the good traits day one. Neither of these hires did that. In fact, the "give them time" and "need 3 - 4 years" narratives where started by ronnie praying it would get turned around and make him look like a genius in hindsight.

 

[WakeForest Fan]

Virginia was 30-7 in Bennett's fifth year. Comparable to Manning's fifth year for sure.

 

[thatguy2016]

I won't lie. I'm undecided. First of all, if you listen to many of the post game pressers or halftime interviews of coaches, many respected ones included, you hear much of the same ideas that we hear from Danny. The difference is though, that the Calipari's or the K's, or the Roy's, or the Bennett's or the Self's, et al clearly have a more effective way of producing the performances in the players, and a more appreciated message to the fanbases. I honestly believe Manning knows what he is talking about when it comes to college basketball. But it's becoming very clear that he's not very good at coaching that wisdom into his team. So the question I have about replacing him or keeping him is actually pretty simple. Will changing the coach really make any difference at Wake Forest? Buzz was obviously well regarded as a basketball mind otherwise he NEVER would've been as respected in the NBA, yet he was horrible as a college coach. Prosser definitely brought some cache to the program especially with some improved recruiting. But he never actually changed the inherent weaknesses of the Wake Forest basketball program. Odom, revered by many on this board, had some productive years finding diamonds like Duncan and Childress, but frankly never created a lasting impression of any consequence. Wake Forest is not EVER mentioned in the same breath with Syracuse, Georgetown, UNC, Duke, UVA, FSU, Texas, UK, Kansas,Mich St., Mich, Ohio St, Kansas, Oklahoma, UCLA, Arizona, and a host of other schools. Is a coaching change going to automatically change that scenario over a 4-5 year period. Not likely. There are only a handful of impactful coaches that have either legitimately established, or maintained, a culture of success in modern college basketball. Roy Williams, Bill Self, K, Gregg Marshall, Rick Barnes, Tom Izzo, John Calipari, Brad Stephens, Jim Boeheim, Jay Wright and John Beilien: maybe Shaka Smart. Of those, only Stephens, Gregg Marshall and Shaka could be considered non-blue bloods. It ain't gonna be as simple as you think.

3 of those highlighted are wrong, for different reasons - but UVA is particularly laughable

UVA is without question many tiers above WF right now - and it's 100% due to them hiring Bennett while we have made catastrophic choices

for the previous two decades, WF was the better program than UVA by any measure you choose to apply

 

[knowell]

That’s a really bad post for so many reasons, but I guess kudos for being brave enough to show how bad you can post?

Agree with that. That is probably the worst take I have ever seen. It is bad enough to tarnish the reputation of the school since he says that he is an alumnus.

But at least he did have the courage to post that. If my brain, were that addled, I would likely not want anyone to know it.

Could fusion dad a real person? Maybe a bad Russian bot?

 

[knowell]

[Redacted] and [redacted part deux] showed the same flaws on day one that they did on their last day. That is what amazes me. So many people keep saying you have to give a coach time to get their recruits, schemes etc in place. I would agree as long as you see the good traits day one. Neither of these hires did that. In fact, the "give them time" and "need 3 - 4 years" narratives where started by ronnie praying it would get turned around and make him look like a genius in hindsight.

I agree with this. Normally you want to give a coach 3-5 years to get his system and players in place. BZ and Manning were so bad from day 1 that the only smart play was to cut your losses.

If a coach is showing progress and needs time to get over the hump, that is one thing. Only Wellman, Rchill, and I guess FusionDad are incapable of making a judgment in a reasonable time frame.

 

[WakeForest Fan]

3 of those highlighted are wrong, for different reasons - but UVA is particularly laughable

UVA is without question many tiers above WF right now - and it's 100% due to them hiring Bennett while we have made catastrophic choices

for the previous two decades, WF was the better program than UVA by any measure you choose to apply

even after the last decade of shit, wake still ranks 38th all-time in NCAA Tournament wins. There are 347 D1 programs. His post is lunacy. Hell, the top five programs (UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas and UCLA - even though the bruins suck recently) dwarf everyone else. i posted all this in another thread. By any measure, Wake is a top 10-15% program. EVEN WITH redacted and manning.
shocking any "wake fan" would have his attitude. but then again, there may be a lot more which is why the program is in the shitter.

 

[PTownDeac]

Terrible take Fusiondad.

 

[RJKarl]

^^^ VT is a very good example of when you aren't that good but find and sign the right coach.

They didn't "find" him. He called them when he still had a job and they still had a coach. VT had no idea he was looking for a job nor did anyone else in the country.

 

[IckerDeac]

I Odom, revered by many on this board, had some productive years finding diamonds like Duncan and Childress, but frankly never created a lasting impression of any consequence.

Childress was a national recruit from Flint Hill which was a powerhouse program at the time. Odom also landed numerous nationally ranked recruits which are often forgotten in the mythology that he simply lucked out on a few recruits.

 

[WakeForest Fan]

Childress was a national recruit from Flint Hill which was a powerhouse program at the time. Odom also landed numerous nationally ranked recruits which are often forgotten in the mythology that he simply lucked out on a few recruits.

I think some guy named Rodney Rogers was pretty good and highly ranked

 

[morrison2951]

They didn't "find" him. He called them when he still had a job and they still had a coach. VT had no idea he was looking for a job nor did anyone else in the country.

Yep- Buzz called his AD buddy at VT for the job.
#admatters

 

[Fusiondad10]

Agree with that. That is probably the worst take I have ever seen. It is bad enough to tarnish the reputation of the school since he says that he is an alumnus.

But at least he did have the courage to post that. If my brain, were that addled, I would likely not want anyone to know it.

Could fusion dad a real person? Maybe a bad Russian bot?

Knowell, since you can't appreciate, nor make anything above a kindergarten level post, I suggest you just stop overtaxing your brain and put me on ignore. Just curious, do you actually have any experience as a real fan before 2015?, 2010? 2005? 2000? 1990? No need to answer, it's obvious. To you and anybody else who doesn't understand, go back to the 1970's and see if you can find a period of sustained (5-10 or more consecutive years )top half of the conference, or Sweet Sixteen performance between then and now. There aren't any. Consistent Relevance on a national scale doesn't exist in spite of a few years of Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, Randolph Childress, Rodney Rogers, AFA, and any of the other short term heroes. And frankly except for the year we lost in the sweet sixteen to St. Joe's we have NEVER fulfilled our potential( when we lost to Marquette in the final four decades ago we played ABOVE our potential). I'm not negative about the Deacs. I love 'em. But I'm more honest than those of you who expect another coaching change in today's college environment will turn Wake Basketball into something it's never been.

 

[thatguy2016]

go back to the 1970's and see if you can find a period of sustained (5-10 or more consecutive years )top half of the conference, or Sweet Sixteen performance between then and now.

ok - 92-93 through 03-04, 12 seasons, never worse than tied for 5th (of 9), ahead of that juggernaut FSU program 11 of 12 years, ahead of or tied with UVA 10 of 12 years

 

[pourdeac]

Knowell, since you can't appreciate, nor make anything above a kindergarten level post, I suggest you just stop overtaxing your brain and put me on ignore. Just curious, do you actually have any experience as a real fan before 2015?, 2010? 2005? 2000? 1990? No need to answer, it's obvious. To you and anybody else who doesn't understand, go back to the 1970's and see if you can find a period of sustained (5-10 or more consecutive years )top half of the conference, or Sweet Sixteen performance between then and now. There aren't any. Consistent Relevance on a national scale doesn't exist in spite of a few years of Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, Randolph Childress, Rodney Rogers, AFA, and any of the other short term heroes. And frankly except for the year we lost in the sweet sixteen to St. Joe's we have NEVER fulfilled our potential( when we lost to Marquette in the final four decades ago we played ABOVE our potential). I'm not negative about the Deacs. I love 'em. But I'm more honest than those of you who expect another coaching change in today's college environment will turn Wake Basketball into something it's never been.

People aren't expecting a coaching change to get Wake into something it's never been, people are worried that if we DON"T have a coaching change it'll turn into something it's never been...consistently at the bottom.

You see a trend line with ups and downs. Well we're at the lowest of downs and you seem to be OK with quitting and never trying to get up to highs of the trend line. It's bizarre. Giving up isn't a solution.

 

[RacerDeac]

I hate to pile on, but that post deserves it. Wow Fusion.

 

[knowell]

Knowell, since you can't appreciate, nor make anything above a kindergarten level post, I suggest you just stop overtaxing your brain and put me on ignore. Just curious, do you actually have any experience as a real fan before 2015?, 2010? 2005? 2000? 1990? No need to answer, it's obvious. To you and anybody else who doesn't understand, go back to the 1970's and see if you can find a period of sustained (5-10 or more consecutive years )top half of the conference, or Sweet Sixteen performance between then and now. There aren't any. Consistent Relevance on a national scale doesn't exist in spite of a few years of Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, Randolph Childress, Rodney Rogers, AFA, and any of the other short term heroes. And frankly except for the year we lost in the sweet sixteen to St. Joe's we have NEVER fulfilled our potential( when we lost to Marquette in the final four decades ago we played ABOVE our potential). I'm not negative about the Deacs. I love 'em. But I'm more honest than those of you who expect another coaching change in today's college environment will turn Wake Basketball into something it's never been.

Why would I put you on ignore? You offer almost an equal entertainment level with RJ. I thoroughly enjoy those insane hot takes.

I have been watching since 1975 and have seen lots of great basketball. True that Wake rarely reached it's potential in march but there was always fun as well as heartbreak along the way. All that I can take. Complete intentional incompetence is a different story and not acceptable. Up until these past 9 years, our teams have been competitive and competently coached. Wake was never a place you went to and expected to chalk up an easy win.

If you cannot see the difference, it has to be intentional.

 

[AlphaDeac]

They didn't "find" him. He called them when he still had a job and they still had a coach. VT had no idea he was looking for a job nor did anyone else in the country.

Wrong. Just plain wrong.

 

[knowell]

Wrong. Just plain wrong.

I don't know how you can say RJ is wrong. He has repeated this fallacy at least a dozen times. I think it starts becoming true by around the 6th time.

Therefore you must be wrong. Please apologize or you will be facing down the "WHY DO YOU LIE???" treatment.

 

[06deacon]

Knowell, since you can't appreciate, nor make anything above a kindergarten level post, I suggest you just stop overtaxing your brain and put me on ignore. Just curious, do you actually have any experience as a real fan before 2015?, 2010? 2005? 2000? 1990? No need to answer, it's obvious. To you and anybody else who doesn't understand, go back to the 1970's and see if you can find a period of sustained (5-10 or more consecutive years )top half of the conference, or Sweet Sixteen performance between then and now. There aren't any. Consistent Relevance on a national scale doesn't exist in spite of a few years of Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, Randolph Childress, Rodney Rogers, AFA, and any of the other short term heroes. And frankly except for the year we lost in the sweet sixteen to St. Joe's we have NEVER fulfilled our potential( when we lost to Marquette in the final four decades ago we played ABOVE our potential). I'm not negative about the Deacs. I love 'em. But I'm more honest than those of you who expect another coaching change in today's college environment will turn Wake Basketball into something it's never been.

Once again, there’s so much wrong with this thing that it’s not worth attempting to address 1 or even 5 of the fuckups. FFS fusiondad. You know how therapists suggest writing letters to people but then never sending them? Consider taking that approach next time you’re brewing up a whopper of a post.