New coaching search thread

[knowell]

Not sure if serious, but our next coach will be here 7-10 years. Maybe 10-12. Then move on or retire.

I saw someone say Wes would be here 30 years. LOL. How many coaches have we had for 12 years or longer in MBB?

Forbes for 7-10 is a good get.

Let's hope you are wrong. Most of the time, when a program makes a jump in level, it is due to a really good coach staying at the program for a long time.

You are correct that Wake has never had that and Wake has never made that next jump.

Right now, Wake needs to make a jump to get to mediocrity.

If you want Wake to be an elite program, the best chance is to get an elite coach that will stay for a long time.

 

[greekdeac2011]

When Roy faints a few more times and finally retires, don't see UNC is f-ing around with mid-major coaches. Kentucky and Kansas don't waste their time with potential; they hire coaches who they know will get the job done. UNC is arguably an even more attractive job than those schools.

The first call from the UNC decision-makers is going to Brad Stevens agent. I can see Stevens going back to college basketball at some point, and he knows that he could win multiple Nattys at UNC. If Stevens doesn't want to return to college at that time (or has already taken a job like Kansas), literally every great coach is on the table for them (Chris Holtmann, Chris Mack, Mark Few, Dana Altman, NBA guys with college experience). UNC should have learned from the Matt Doherty debacle that it makes no sense to limit yourself to coaches with an UNC connection as that is about the only way the UNC program can crater.

Miller's only shot at UNC would be to get at least on the level of a VCU, Seton Hall or Butler, and stringing a few successful seasons together there. I don't see the timeline working out for Miller on that plan where Miller would be UNC's next coach as I would put the over under on Roy leaving UNC at 3.5, and don't see Miller getting that next job and adding to his resume at his next coaching stop by the time UNC is looking. Miller's only 37. So, maybe he will be a legit candidate for UNC by the time the coach that succeeds Roy is ready to leave, but Miller won't have the credentials for the UNC job soon enough to succeed old Roy.

As for Duke, K is picking his successor, and like almost every job where a legend leaves, his successor is doomed to fail. Of all of K's "guys", always had the feeling that Amaker was the one he was closest too. So, my guess is that Tommy will get the job, and Duke will decline. Maybe, at that point, Duke's decision-makers will realize that its stupid to limit the pool of coaching candidates to just K's brood, but as long as they limit the pool, that's good for everyone else.

Fastest way to tank an elite program is to exclude the very best options to lead that program.

Yeah, UNC is not going to be plucking Roy's successor from UNCG. Duke will be more interesting because K is Duke. They'd had little success before he arrived.

 

[RacerDeac]

I'm leaning toward wanting Matta, the big time winner even with health issues. If things go south for him, I don't see him just hanging on for dear life like Manning did.

Another complication for the media in this coaching search, the WFU campus is locked down. No one can hang outside the buildings seeing who is coming or going. They can parachute in a coaching candidate if they want. There is a lot of "I'm hearing blah blah blah", but nobody knows if its the truth. Wake Forest sports has always locked down their info leaks.

Which is why the "Know your program" dude's BS about seeing Beilein on campus yesterday is almost definitely bullshit. That little website he writes for looks like it's straight out of 1995. Saw more traffic this morning from Wake fans than all of last year.

 

[wake20]

Another plug to subscribe to 247. Les is on top of things.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

What are the odds any of these people came to campus period?

 

[greekdeac2011]

Let's hope you are wrong. Most of the time, when a program makes a jump in level, it is due to a really good coach staying at the program for a long time.

You are correct that Wake has never had that and Wake has never made that next jump.

Right now, Wake needs to make a jump to get to mediocrity.

If you want Wake to be an elite program, the best chance is to get an elite coach that will stay for a long time.

Forbes and Kelsey are not elite coaches. The closest thing on the horizon for that is Matta. He may not coach for 30 more years, but he can make Wake mediocre pretty quickly and has the name power to recruit ACC caliber players almost immediately. That's what Wake needs. That's what Wake needed when [redacted] was fired too, but instead, Wellman gave us Manning, with one decent year in a mid-major league under his belt.

 

[WRS]

Well if it violates public policy it’s not generally going to stand up under scrutiny. Most states require non competes to be reasonable in scope and duration - where the entire Atlantic seaboard is well beyond reasonable in scope.

Even if the clause is specifically limited to a small group of institutions? I’m actually curious about this from a legal perspective.

 

[greekdeac2011]

What are the odds any of these people came to campus period?

I assume slim to none. From all I have heard, these interviews are being conducted via Zoom. I doubt anyone is doing in-person interviews.

 

[RJKarl]

He was required to interview to keep the osu money coming in. If his health was still poor he, presumably, would not take a job while hoping/working to recover.
He calls an AD with a job opening and says "prob not going to take it but would love to discuss it." That AD gets press about interviewing Matta. That's good even if he know Matta is not ready to coach.
You seem to not like Matta for wfu coach for some reason. Something in particular?

Last year, interviewing made him millions of dollars. This year it would only make him about $300,000 before his pay ends at the end of June. That's an amount that would be easily added to his deal at Wake or anywhere else.

 

[RacerDeac]

What are the odds any of these people came to campus period?

Almost nil. If this has been in the works as long as it sounds like it has, we could have put together a hell of a virtual campus/city tour for coaching candidates over the last few weeks. Plus, 4 of the candidates know the campus about as well as any of us.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Even if the clause is specifically limited to a small group of institutions? I’m actually curious about this from a legal perspective.

Heavily state specific inquiry from a legal perspective and I’m not an NC attorney but I would be surprised if even in a state with employer friendly views regarding non competes that a clause prohibiting work among a small group of institutions across several states would be considered reasonable.

 

[RedSoxFaithful]

Yeah, UNC is not going to be plucking Roy's successor from UNCG. Duke will be more interesting because K is Duke. They'd had little success before he arrived.

Honestly, wouldn't be shocked if K just hands it off to Scheyer. He's one of the best recruiters their program has ever had. I get the feeling the job will either be his or Woj's.

 

[Pilchard]

I understand the general consensus supporting Matta, and if he's healthy, his resume is by far the best of any of the mentioned candidate by a landslide. Not a debatable point.

The one other sticking point with Matta would likely be money, duration and terms. WF just got burned with a ridiculously awful contract. Understand that Matta is not Danny Manning. Even so, is WF ready to enter into another contract that massively favors the coach?

With Forbes, Turner, McKay (or any other coach coming up for a lower level), WF can dictate contract terms, like amount (will be far more than their current schools pay), number of years, and buyout terms. Not the case with Matta. Matta is going to expect a long expensive contract with onerous buyout terms. If WF is flush with cash, no problem. If not, money/terms could be an issue. Can't spend money that you don't have.

 

[knowell]

I understand the general consensus supporting Matta, and if he's healthy, his resume is by far the best of any of the mentioned candidate by a landslide. Not a debatable point.

The one other sticking point with Matta would likely be money, duration and terms. WF just got burned with a ridiculously awful contract. Understand that Matta is not Danny Manning. Even so, is WF ready to enter into another contract that massively favors the coach?

With Forbes, Turner, McKay (or any other coach coming up for a lower level), WF can dictate contract terms, like amount (will be far more than their current schools pay), number of years, and buyout terms. Not the case with Matta. Matta is going to expect a long expensive contract with onerous buyout terms. If WF is flush with cash, no problem. If not, money/terms could be an issue. Can't spend money that you don't have.

Agree except for that last statement. That is not true in 2020.

 

[RacerDeac]

With Forbes, Turner, McKay (or any other coach coming up for a lower level), WF can dictate contract terms, like amount (will be far more than their current schools pay), number of years, and buyout terms. Not the case with Matta. Matta is going to expect a long expensive contract with onerous buyout terms. If WF is flush with cash, no problem. If not, money/terms could be an issue. Can't spend money that you don't have.

I don't know if I agree. He's already massively wealthy. He has been "out of the game" for a few years and may just be ready to get back to it. Plus, no one else is coming calling right now. He's staring down a year with no income that has to be factored into the contract equation.

Plus, RJ assures us that $$ isn't a problem. Except for Beilein, because we might have to hire another coach or something.

 

[wfu22fan]

It appears we did miss the window on Wes Miller some time ago. I have messages this morning (and yesterday) from multiple former prominent players at Wake, UNC, and UNCG all saying Wes turned down interest from WF this month and, in particular, over the last 48 hours.

Let me emphasize what I am not saying:
(1) I have not spoken at all this month with anyone with the last name Miller.
(2) I have no indication that WF made a formal offer to Miller.

While Miller will remain at UNCG, who knows whether he will move on somewhere else. But for those who didn't want anything to do with Wes Miller and UNCG, it appears you certainly got your wish.

My take/speculation is Miller (1) sees the limits with the WF job first hand (2) even if he doesn't get the UNC job, will take his chances elsewhere (3) probably was not happy somewhere along the way with Wellman/WF and (4) didn't desire to sign up for a situation where folks bring up his Father all the time as a reason for his success. Frankly, I can't blame him.

I do also have folks connected with Matta telling me there has been mutual interest. Currie and Matta have known each other for some time and there is respect between the two. Matta is healthy and interested in our job in particular because of the age of K, Roy, and Boeheim. Folks I have spoken to really like Thad.

I also have had a myriad of former WF players rallying behind Kelsey. I am behind Kelsey as well and think he would bring the passion we need at Wake as he did previously.

That's all I have this morning. Enjoy!

Too bad about Wes. Regarding Matta, dubious that his chronic back/foot drop problem has resolved.

 

[RedSoxFaithful]

I know Matta succeeding isn't a 100% guarantee, but it would be shocking if we needed to consider firing him in the next 5 years for performance reasons, based on the last decade for the program, and I can't imagine Matta wanting a contract longer than 3-5 years anyway. The only risk I see from a contract perspective is if he needs to walk away again for health reasons, which we'd probably be pretty well protected for, no?

 

[deaconson]

Add some basic performance guarantees. I'm not talking 20 wins or your fired just levels that any competent coach could achieve. Keeping players, graduating kids, certain level of recruiting, .500 or better most years. Just potential examples. Basically terms that would keep wake from bottoming out again if you need to make a change.

 

[RJKarl]

If you ever sit still for a second and ponder why other posters shit on you for often no reason - these type of opening clauses are part of the reason.

You are not smarter than everybody else and you are not dumber than everybody else. You are louder than most, but that fact has zero correlation to information or smarts.

Yes, a battered spouse oft flinches when no strike is coming, but come one, man. I don't see how or why this is the thread to pick fights and stick out your chin. Calm down.

You're so right. It's not like I have reached out to try to make peace. They have no interest.

Hell, even after, two posters people like confirmed my source. Even after Currie said publicly the amount of the buyout the media has been stating is wrong. To avoid admitting I was right, a number of people have been attacking me personally and continually. If they said nothing it would be OK. I would have smirked and not had a problem.

When every day, I'm called everything but a child of God. Lines like the one above happen.

All of this could be over by lunch time today, but certain people don't want peace or friendliness or even silence. I'll be the first one to sign on. But I won't unilaterally retreat as it won't do any good.

 

[deaconson]

rj. It's not retreating. Its taking the high road.