Official 2020-21 NBA Finals - Milwaukee Bucks win the NBA Championship!

[Strickland33]

ok

I realize loquaciousness is your shtick, but I would like to hear your case beyond "the nba was a lot better then" (which isn't actually true by any metric beyond nostalgia).

I'm sympathetic to your position.

 

[Kory]

Reasonable minds may differ, but Zeke, CP3, and Jason Kidd are all above Payton in my book.

sound good

p crazy that if George Karl starts the finals with GP on MJ in '96 you might think differently but i guess that's a what if oh well

 

[Kory]

also i thought we were talking about greatest defensive point guards

 

[Biff Tannen]

Get back to me in 12 years when LaMelo is the best PG to ever play the game.

 

[deacon14]

I think there is a subset of fans -- 2&2 among them -- that likes JC and not CP3

There's also a subset of younger Wake fans that strongly associate JC with Wake Forest and have to remember that CP3 went to Wake when they were 10 years old or less.

 

[Kory]

srs q: why did Zeke never make an All-Defensive Team

i've ever only thought of him as an offensive superstar who was good at D

 

[Biff Tannen]

There's also a subset of younger Wake fans that strongly associate JC with Wake Forest and have to remember that CP3 went to Wake when they were 10 years old or less.

Yeah, but there weren't many Wake fans during that period to begin with and the younger ones don't post here.

 

[PhDeac]

srs q: why did Zeke never make an All-Defensive Team

i've ever only thought of him as an offensive superstar who was good at D

Because he played beside a combo guard who was an all-time great defender in Joe Dumars.

 

[Kory]

sure that makes sense I guess but never?

honestly asking

 

[IAppreciateIt]

milhate loves bad boys

 

[devi8]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jamal-mashburn-shares-larry-bird-140851720.html

During a recent episode of "Knuckleheads with Quentin Richardson and Darius Miles," 12-year NBA veteran Jamal Mashburn shared a story about an encounter he had with Larry Bird in 1992 when USA Basketball brought several college standouts, including Mashburn, Allan Houston, Rodney Rogers, Eric Montross, Chris Webber, Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill, to scrimmage the Dream Team.

It all started when Bird, well known for his trash talk, approached Mashburn and Chris Webber and asked if they were “those college guys.” When Mashburn and Webber responded that they were Bird “looked at (them) and said ‘get some (expletive) rest, it's gonna be a long week.”

The scrimmage, now an infamous moment among basketball circles, did not go the way most thought it would. The young, hungry college kids came out and punched the Dream Team in the mouth, and before the legendary squad could make their comeback Chuck Daly ended the scrimmage.

According to Mashburn drama ensued shortly after the scrimmage. Rodney Rodgers went up to Bird, Magic Johnson and a group of Dream Team members and said “Hey Larry! You ain’t hit a jumper since ‘84.”

While the naive college students thought nothing of the comment, they set something off in Larry Legend. With Magic feeding him the ball, and Rodney Rogers giving his best defensive effort, Bird was catching the ball and telling Rogers exactly what he was going to do before he did it.

“One dribble pull-up, going left off glass. One dribble, going right. Spin. Shot. Bucket.” Mashburn said mimicking Bird. “He scored nine times or eight times in a row. Left the court to go lay down because he couldn't sit on a bench. He had to lay down because of his back and said ‘Young fella, look like ‘84 huh?’”

never heard this one before & never realized RR was a trash talker

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

I think there is a subset of fans -- 2&2 among them -- that likes JC and not CP3

Right. I was a huge CP3 fan while he was at Wake and after he left. I've still got an ugly-ass CP3 New Orleans Hornets jersey from his rookie year. But the guy is a straight up douchebag on the court and has forced his way off multiple teams. It doesn't have anything to do with leaving early, I pull harder for JJ, Aminu, Teague, JC, etc. I've just watched him too much to really root for a player like that.

To me he is in with guys like Harden and John Wall and Paul George and Kyrie who are obviously all very skilled but I have no use for.

 

[bluefish]

There is a lot of revisionist history around Paul's departure and the fanbase's reaction to it. No one has ever questioned whether he was ready or should have left - he proved he was ready during that sophomore season. The problem everyone had was how it played out. Paul had made public statements leading people to believe he would stay at least 3 years and either graduate or get close to it before leaving - talking about how education was important to his family, etc. With the whole story about his grandfather's death and everything - he convinced people that he was different. Then he left and it turned out he wasn't really different - which would have been fine if it hadn't surprised everyone. I don't think people were upset at JJ or Teague leaving after 2 years - they made it obvious that was expected.

And, with Paul, it was obvious that the coaching staff believed he was staying at least one more year by looking at their recruiting efforts. So, his leaving did take everyone by surprise, even though it was clearly the right thing for him.

This is the way I remember it. Also heard he had promised Skip he would stay at least 3 during his recruitment. I make no qualitative judgements.

Edit: see you already said that.

 

[DeacKillsaDevil]

Giannis out tonight

 

[Milhouse]

I realize loquaciousness is your shtick, but I would like to hear your case beyond "the nba was a lot better then" (which isn't actually true by any metric beyond nostalgia).

I'm sympathetic to your position.

i was merely commenting that isiah managed to be the best player on a team that won back to back titles during the same era as three teams that are widely considered (i assume, i haven't ever read any arguments to the contrary) to be three of the best teams of all time - the 80s celtics, the 80s lakers, the 90s bulls - in response to your point about shit/good luck, timing, competition, etc.

whatever it's worth i love CP and think the wake people who hate him are a bunch of douchebags

 

[Brendan207]

Right. I was a huge CP3 fan while he was at Wake and after he left. I've still got an ugly-ass CP3 New Orleans Hornets jersey from his rookie year. But the guy is a straight up douchebag on the court and has forced his way off multiple teams. It doesn't have anything to do with leaving early, I pull harder for JJ, Aminu, Teague, JC, etc. I've just watched him too much to really root for a player like that.

To me he is in with guys like Harden and John Wall and Paul George and Kyrie who are obviously all very skilled but I have no use for.

To a non-wake fan I can see why he's not very likable on the court. But which teams did he force his way off of?

New Orleans knew he'd leave via free agency so they traded him before his contract was up to get solid value. Not wanting to re-sign in a smaller market isn't exactly forcing your way off a team. It's the team being smart with a player they know doesn't want to re-sign. There are exceptions to this (Giannis staying in MKE) but most of the great players in this era leave for big market max deals.
Clippers? I don't know if that one was forced or not, he was there for 6 years and couldn't get over the hump with the clips
Houston - They dumped him - they thought they were making a smart move by dumping his contract to Oklahoma City.
(link -> https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...-the-worst-contract-hed-ever-seen-per-report/)
Oklahoma City? Most people thought OKC would trade Paul sooner... I hadn't read anything about him forcing his way out.

 

[freakadeac]

CP3s advanced metrics are off the charts, #3 all time plus minus behind Jordan and Lebron. 2012 Olympics CP3 dominated and won that gold metal game for USA. Everyone has haunting playoff resumes until they win it all - See Isiah’s inbound pass that Bird stole in 87. He’s not Duncan level but he’s a top 20 all time player if he wins the title and I’d put him #3 PG behind Magic and Isiah.

 

[freakadeac]

Wake fans think nut punch and Pittsnogle with CP3 but it spoke to how good CP3 was that we went from 2 seed (argument for 1 seed) to missing the tourney entirely without CP3 next season, he’s 2nd best basketball Deac behind Duncan

 

[freakadeac]

If CP3 wins in this weird year, esp against a potentially Giannis-less Bucks (or Trae on Hawks), how many ppl will put an asterisk on his ring? Or does it fully cement his legacy, no questions asked?

cements his legacy, it’s irrelevant long term IMO

 

[siff]

Is there an asterisk by the Toronto title because Durant and Thompson got hurt? Injuries are part of the game.

Do the Rockets titles not count because Jordan left the game to play baseball?

Why not credit the 36-year-old Paul for staying healthy (including overcoming Covid) when many others could not?

this