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Official Russian Election Interference Thread

Lears nails it. The Russia, Russia, Russia conspiracy theory is a hysterical obsession, the followers of which immediately condemn anyone who dares to question any of its numerous dubious, false, and unverified "facts," not to mention its basic tenets.

No doubt the crash landing from this fantasizing will be cushioned by further self deceptions.
 
sailordeac said:
Lears nails it. The Russia, Russia, Russia conspiracy theory is a hysterical obsession, the followers of which immediately condemn anyone who dares to question any of its numerous dubious, false, and unverified "facts," not to mention its basic tenets.

No doubt the crash landing from this fantasizing will be cushioned by further self deceptions.
Click to expand...

It’s not a conspiracy theory.
 
Maybe you should. It's about historical and modern conspiracy theories, which are fascinating not necessarily so much for what they say but why they have an appeal and how they work.
 
sailordeac said:
Maybe you should. It's about historical and modern conspiracy theories, which are fascinating not necessarily so much for what they say but why they have an appeal and how they work.
Click to expand...

Are there any bird conspiracies in there? Anything about birds at all? If not I won’t read it.
 
sailordeac said:
bird conspiracies? not that I am aware, however, he talks about many conspiracies that, if you'll excuse my saying so, are for the birds, so to speak
Click to expand...

Does the author offer a definition of conspiracy theory? If so, how does it differ from the one I posted the other day regarding the ignoring of simple facts?
 
Which part about the Russia "conspiracy theory" is even extreme?

We already know that Russia interfered in other nations elections. We know that Donald and his surrogates had (and have) no real idea of the dos and don'ts regarding American politics. We know that Russia vastly preferred Donald as the president to Russia.

What's the extreme part about putting these three together to conclude that Russia interfered with the American election, while in communication with Donald and his campaign, to try and help boost Donald over the top to beat Hillary?

None of those seem that out there at all.
 
It's not a "conspiracy theory". It's a fact that Russia successfully attacked our election in 2016.

We know for a fact:

*The Russian government hacked the DNC.
*The Russian government spent money on Facebook ads and created hundreds of thousands of bots to support their posts
*Manafort was paid in excess of $10M by one of Putin's right hand men for political actions.
*After Veselnitskaya met with Donnie, Jr., Manafort and Jared that her clients' case was taken over by AG Sessions and the criminals were given a walk on a rock solid case that carried decades in jail as penalties.
*Somehow the Russians got assistance to know which zip coded to advertise on social media
*Jared was meeting with the Russian Ambassador to set up back channels to get rid of sanctions
*Putin's piggybank VEB financed Trump Toronto
*Trump Soho was partnered with American-Russian mobster Felix

Those are just a few of the indisputable facts that tie Trump to Russia.
 
Labeling the Russia scandal a conspiracy theory despite all of the facts is a conspiracy theory in and of itself.
 
Admittedly there is significant speculation, currently, as to how serious the trump Russia conspiracy is, but given that the entire issue I rooted in basic verifiable facts, we are dealing with theories of conspiracy, not conspiracy theories.

On the other hand, thinking that the Deep State conspired with the DNC to fabricate the Steele Dossier in order to get a Fissa warrant to go after the GOP... that is a bit out there.
 
For some thoughtful analysis based on facts and law:

 
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Also of interest is this article from April 2017 that outlines how British, Australian, German, Estonian, French, Dutch and Polish intelligence all alerted the United States about communication between Russia and Trump's campaign...beginning in 2015. Some of the information in the article supports what the Times reported a few days ago.

At the risk of stating the obvious, I follow this story really closely and even I had forgotten about these revelations. Goes to show A) how complex and overwhelming this story is and B) how quickly the wrong information can spread via Fox News/House GOP/Trump's tweets - all who have been claiming for weeks that the dossier started this whole thing (just look at sailors posts). It will now take months (if ever) to explain the origins of the investigation to those who don't want to believe what is happening.



British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia

Exclusive: GCHQ is said to have alerted US agencies after becoming aware of contacts in 2015

Luke Harding, Stephanie Kirchgaessner and Nick Hopkins

Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.

GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.

Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.

The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.

Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors.

It is understood that GCHQ was at no point carrying out a targeted operation against Trump or his team or proactively seeking information. The alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of routine surveillance of Russian intelligence assets. Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern of connections that were flagged to intelligence officials in the US.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...p-team-links-russia?__twitter_impression=true
 
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From the Sydney Morning Herald:


Joe Hockey discussed Alexander Downer's Russia revelations with FBI

Alexander Downer linked to Russia probe

The ambassador to the United States Joe Hockey personally steered Australia's dealings with the FBI on explosive revelations of Russian hacking during last year's presidential campaign in a sign of how politically sensitive the Australian government regarded the bombshell discovery, Fairfax Media understands.

It is also understood there is now annoyance and frustration in Canberra that the High Commissioner to Britain Alexander Downer has been outed through leaks by US officials as the source of information that played a role in sparking an FBI probe into the Trump campaign's dealings with Moscow.

Fairfax Media has confirmed independently that the conversation first reported by The New York Times took place.In May 2016, Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos told Mr Downer over drinks at an upscale London wine bar that the Russians had a dirt file on rival candidate Hillary Clinton in the form of hacked Democratic Party emails.

Mr Downer conveyed the conversation to Canberra via an official cable, though apparently not immediately – perhaps because he did not take the 28-year-old adviser's claims altogether seriously until the hacked emails were released by Wikileaks in late July.

...

Mr Hockey is believed to have been involved in discussions with the FBI, indicating the Australian government was keenly alive to its political sensitivity, given it raised the possibility that one side of a presidential campaign was colluding with a foreign power against the other side.

Former officials and experts have said Australia dealt with the fraught situation correctly and had little choice but to share information of this nature with its closest ally. Serving and former officials also said Canberra had every right to be annoyed that Mr Downer's involvement had been made public.



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...sia-revelations-with-fbi-20180101-h0c58c.html
 
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