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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

interesting, because the lengthy summary of the DSA's general positions in that Jacobin piece was curiously bereft of the pitfalls of socialism. i guess it doesn't deserve good faith
 
The notion that we cant ever have radical change in America without first guaranteeing that no one will suffer for it, or that everyone will benefit equally, is ludicrous. There is no possible system that could ever guarentee that. American capitalism was literally built upon African chattel slave labor, child labor, and the violent exploitation of european immigrants. Current capitalism is built upon exploitation of unskilled labor, supported by an artifically maintained labor supply, protected by a virulently racist justice system meant to "protect" capital by codifying class and social stratification. We have a fucking caste system.
 
lol

Economic tyranny of the majority would be significantly worse under the democratic socialist system described by Jacobin, as compared to either a true free enterprise system or what we currently have in place. The existence of imperfections in our economic system does not warrant blowing the whole thing up.

I'm all for most of the socially progressive policies promoted by the DSA, but holy fuck is economic socialism a stupid idea.
 
RedSoxFaithful said:
lol

Economic tyranny of the majority would be significantly worse under the democratic socialist system described by Jacobin, as compared to either a true free enterprise system or what we currently have in place. The existence of imperfections in our economic system does not warrant blowing the whole thing up.

I'm all for most of the socially progressive policies promoted by the DSA, but holy fuck is economic socialism a stupid idea.
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links, receipts? cause we have them for capitalism.
 
Just over here remembering what Nat Turner thought about the true free enterprise system.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
yeah we all remember that slavery happened and was subsequently outlawed by every western, capitalist nation
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Great, so you understand that economic systems require robust and ever-evolving humanitarian constraints.
 
seems to me that capitalism is indeed capable of producing and exercising those restraints.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
seems to me that capitalism is indeed capable of producing and exercising those restraints.
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lol Those restraints are a response to capitalism, which is an inherently exploitative system, particularly when "corporations are constituents" and have the political leverage to govern themselves.
 
At this point in human evolution, neither "pure" or nearly pure capitalism or "pure" or nearly pure socialism is possible. We have to come up with a balance of the better parts of each.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
seems to me that capitalism is indeed capable of producing and exercising those restraints.
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Its super fucking rich for you to try and make that argument when your response to the Crapo Bill glass-steagal rollback, where banks are once again free to target black people for toxic home loans, was to point out that those politicians were just following the wishes of their districts businesses (banks), and dismiss the fact that those Dem politicians received hundreds of thousands of dollars in banking industry campaign donations. "indeed capable" get the fuck out of here. They dont restrain themselves and you openly dont give a fuck whether they do or not.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
lol Those restraints are a response to capitalism, which is an inherently exploitative system, particularly when "corporations are constituents" and have the political leverage to govern themselves.
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capitalism is not just about physical money; i would argue that restraints were simply more valuable to society than the cost of implementing them
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Its super fucking rich for you to try and make that argument when your response to the Crapo Bill glass-steagal rollback, where banks are once again free to target black people for toxic home loans, was to point out that those politicians were just following the wishes of their districts businesses (banks), and dismiss the fact that those Dem politicians received hundreds of thousands of dollars in banking industry campaign donations. "indeed capable" get the fuck out of here. They dont restrain themselves and you openly dont give a fuck whether they do or not.
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if you truly believe in American democracy, then you have to also take it that 'political will' is a part of the marketplace
 
ImTheCaptain said:
if you truly believe in American democracy, then you have to also take it that 'political will' is a part of the marketplace
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If the last 2 years have taught us anything it is that believing in American democracy is the original sin.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
if you truly believe in American democracy, then you have to also take it that 'political will' is a part of the marketplace
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That's pablum. You post a chicken little argument article about the theoretical dangers of Democratic Socialism, yet here when I challenge you to address an actual current danger of democratic capitalism, you dismiss it, again. Why should anyone take your criticisms of DSA seriously?
 
RJKarl said:
At this point in human evolution, neither "pure" or nearly pure capitalism or "pure" or nearly pure socialism is possible. We have to come up with a balance of the better parts of each.
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Of course.

Enough with the "ism" fantasies and horror stories.
 
A response from a black woman, about the shitty article from Conner Friedersdorf (take a guess at his ethnicity) and a lot of other funny responses
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