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Palestine granted non-member observer status by UN

We are for a two state solution and on the right side of history.
 
by obstructing progress the rest of the planet endorses and allowing Hamas to gain legitimacy?
 
Hamas has no interest in peace. They stopped the Palestinian State from coming into existence twice in the 90s.
 
Both parties have to be on equal footing, America is clearly on the wrong side of history here IMO. We can't promote the word of the UN and at the same time undermine things by criticizing Palestine's access to take claims to the ICC. That's incredibly hypocritical. This isn't the last step, but it's a positive first step. I agree with the Vatican's announcement that Jerusalem should be guaranteed international special status as well. It's an incredibly important city to three regions and is the crux of a lot of these issues. There's no reason why it should be guaranteed wholly to one nation.
 
Liquid Karma said:
If being on the wrong side of history means standing against the recognition of a state that condones terrorism, then I'm OK with it.
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If we were truly against recognition of states that condone terrorism we would have to kick out roughly 25-30 members, including Israel. The Israeli state sponsors political assassinations by Mossad. It's one of the only developed nations in the world that allows for their intelligence agency to carry out officially sanctioned assassinations.
 
Where is Palestine? Meaning what/where are the borders?
 
Well that's a relatively complex question but here's a map with the detailed borders updated most recently in 2005:

338-0519123911-palestine-territory.jpg
 
Thanks.
Where did you find this?
 
To be honest just on google image, there are a lot of other maps with updated territorial claims for the two nations.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
If we were truly against recognition of states that condone terrorism we would have to kick out roughly 25-30 members, including Israel. The Israeli state sponsors political assassinations by Mossad. It's one of the only developed nations in the world that allows for their intelligence agency to carry out officially sanctioned assassinations.
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I agree but you could also argue that Israel is one of the only developed nations in the world that is truly surrounded by people that hate them and constantly attack them, have tried to extinguish them, and if they had to the chance to would do it again. I am not saying that Israel is justified in everthing it does, all I'm saying is that I believe they do alot of these things to ensure their survival. The problem with this whole process is that Israel has agreed to give back this land before in return for peace but the other side wants no part of it (see Arafat). Israel has alot of blood on it's hands I know but the Arabs have quite a bit on their hands as well. Was there outrage when Gaza and the West Bank were occupied by Egypt and Jordan? Did their Arab brothers not try to set up a Palestine state during their occupation? Someone fill me in because I know that if the roles were reversed and the Jews were constantly launching their American made rockets from their settlements into Arab cities they would be dealt with in a way that makes what Israel does look like childs play. Does the average Palestinian just want the land pre-1967 and peace? If given their land would they leave Israel alone? I'm just not convinced that the Arabs will be happy until they rid all of Palestine of the Jews. I feel for the folks on BOTH sides that just want to live in peace wether or not it's alongside Jews or Arabs. I support Israel in alot of ways and again I know they do things that are not always the best but I just feel like groups like Hamas, Fatah and insert the name all of the other militant organizations that are in the West Bank and Gaza are absolutely brilliant at making the world demonize the Israeli's. When you use ambulances as troop transports, and base your military equipment in civilian areas, it's a no brainer that civilians are going to get hurt and these guys don't care. They use this to their advantage and to further the cause against big bad Israel.
 
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RJKarl said:
Hamas has no interest in peace. They stopped the Palestinian State from coming into existence twice in the 90s.
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Totally agree. Not really sure what the right answer is but I don't really think Hamas should be part of it. I wish both sides luck in creating something they can agree on.
 
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France kept the Alsace. If you fight a war and lose, you often lose territory. There is no way Israel will ever give up the Golan Heights, nor should they. It would be crazy to give back a military location from which your country has been attacked dozens of times.

However, they should give up the settlements. They have offered 98% of the land from the 1967 borders.
 
They should absolutely give up the settlements. It's blatant violation of international law.
 
They were willing to multiple times in the 90s. Hamas kept Arafat and Abbas from doing it.
 
RJKarl said:
France kept the Alsace. If you fight a war and lose, you often lose territory. There is no way Israel will ever give up the Golan Heights, nor should they. It would be crazy to give back a military location from which your country has been attacked dozens of times.

However, they should give up the settlements. They have offered 98% of the land from the 1967 borders.
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France didn't start World War I, which is when they got Alsace.

Israel started the 6 day war, which is when they got all the territories in question of 242.


Completely different situations.
 
How in god's name is Palenstine a legit state? They have two governments. At the very least its a three state solution these days.
 
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