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PCUSA (Presbyterian Church USA) Approves Gay Marriage

Shorty

Shorty

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I post this mainly because my wife had been nominated to be a commissioner from our Presbytery and she served as a delegate at the PCUSA bi-annual General Assembly meeting this past week in Detroit. She was one of the 429 commissioners who voted to amend the church's constitution to define marriage as "between two people" and one of the 371 commissioners who voted to allow our clergy to celebrate same sex marriages.

PCUSA is a fairly conservative, main line Protestant denomination, so I think it's really cool that this could happen. I realize there are dissenters, but my wife has gotten a ton of positive comments from our friends at church on Facebook and in person.

Forgot the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/presbyterian-pastors-preside-gay-marriages-24218717
 
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This is great news. I wouldn't define PCUSA as fairly conservative though. PCA on the other hand...
 
Don't know the difference in the different Presbyterians, but it's awesome news and your wife sounds pretty cool.

Seriously, I'm sorry your marriage is now threatened.
 
PCUSA lost the vast majority of its conservative members and churches when PCA split off in the late 70's / early 80's.

After that split it was only a matter of time until more liberal stances became the norm rather than a vocal
Minority. This decision has been in the making for a long time. It will further decimate the USA church as congregations are already leaving in mass.
 
PCUSA lost a few congregations after the last assembly when they allowed gays to administer communion. There's already a pending class action suit in North Carolina that Amendment One denies religious freedom to religions, ministers, and congregations who are prevented from performing same-sex marriages. Now add a few North Carolina-based PCUSA ministers and congregations to the mix. Hobby Lobby decision is expected later this week and the NC case will provide an interesting contrast to conservatives' view of religious freedom.
 
FuckmouthedRube said:
PCUSA lost a few congregations after the last assembly when they allowed gays to administer communion. There's already a pending class action suit in North Carolina that Amendment One denies religious freedom to religions, ministers, and congregations who are prevented from performing same-sex marriages. Now add a few North Carolina-based PCUSA ministers and congregations to the mix. Hobby Lobby decision is expected later this week and the NC case will provide an interesting contrast to conservatives' view of religious freedom.
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Whether it is a justified fear or not this is the fear of a lot of conservative congregations. That the government will impose penalties on churches that don't comply with current society in regards to gay and lesbian rights/marriage.
 
Wrangor said:
Whether it is a justified fear or not this is the fear of a lot of conservative congregations. That the government will impose penalties on churches that don't comply with current society in regards to gay and lesbian rights/marriage.
Click to expand...

Has the government imposed penalties on churches for literally any other political disagreement?
 
Wrangor said:
Whether it is a justified fear or not this is the fear of a lot of conservative congregations. That the government will impose penalties on churches that don't comply with current society in regards to gay and lesbian rights/marriage.
Click to expand...

This is totally BS. Every law that has been proposed allows for churches to not do gay marriages if they oppose them. Stop the false fear mongering as a guise to defend your position.

By the way, is this church a Christian church? A direct answer would be appreciated.
 
Wrangor said:
Whether it is a justified fear or not this is the fear of a lot of conservative congregations. That the government will impose penalties on churches that don't comply with current society in regards to gay and lesbian rights/marriage.
Click to expand...

It's not justified. The fear by more liberal congregations that they won't be able to recognize same-sex marriages is much more real. There is no way in my lifetime (or probably my great grandchildren's lifetime) that the U.S. government forces churches to marry individuals they don't want to marry. Any attempt to impose penalties on churches that refuse to marry individuals for whatever reason (legitimate or not) would almost certainly be struck down as unconstitutional.
 
I'm pretty sure churches already have some latitude regarding whom they marry. I don't believe Catholic churches will marry non-Catholics. I missed the law that fines them for refusing to do so.
 
bobknightfan said:
This. I'm the last person in the world who would claim to be any kind of expert on religion...since I haven't been to a church service since the Sunday after Robert Kennedy was killed in June, 1968....but I was always under the impression that, maybe next to the Episcopals, the Presbyterians were one of the more moderate (I'm loathe to describe any religion as liberal) protestant denominations.
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Clearly you've never gone to a Unitarian service. Even better is a Unitarian service in Chapel Hill.
 
Wrangor said:
Whether it is a justified fear or not this is the fear of a lot of conservative congregations.
Click to expand...

Definitely doesn't apply to Huckabee, Santorum, Pence, and Bachmann-true social conservative warriors who will never admit they were wrong, but you have to believe that some GOP pols who want to remain viable post-2016 have to be trying to find a way to back off their prior anti-gay positions. Romney's clearly bright enough to know the mariage equality battle's nearly over, but he still claims to be in favor of a constitutional amendment. Mitt seems to be actively trying to preserve his position as Adolph Rupp in the 1966 NCAA finals or Bear Bryant until the early '70s. Everyone else has pretty much figured it out and is trying to distance themselves and the "religious freedom" angle is a tactic. There isn't a war on Christmas and churches who do want to marry gays have a much better argument about government denying their religious freedoms.

The GOP got whiplash since they didn't realize marriage equality would accelerate as fast as it did. They should have backed off in 2010 after don't ask don't tell was repealed with 65 votes in the Senate and 70% popular approval. Their policy positions are bad enough, but the lame excuses they use (an incompetent government is going to confiscate 300 millions guns, self deportation, gay conversion therapy) makes them look significantly worse. If they had supported civil unions with equal rights to marriage, they wouldn't have burned so man bridges to the future. There are plenty of children of Southern pols who are Romney's age and have repudiated their parents' segregation views later in life. It's especially bad for Mitt, Santorum, and Bachmann who have huge extended families that are likely to include at least a few gay kids.
 
Wrangor said:
PCUSA lost the vast majority of its conservative members and churches when PCA split off in the late 70's / early 80's.

After that split it was only a matter of time until more liberal stances became the norm rather than a vocal
Minority. This decision has been in the making for a long time. It will further decimate the USA church as congregations are already leaving in mass.
Click to expand...

You know what will lead to an even bigger exodus? Continue to push views and ideas that are out of tune with the majority of America while making a false claim to divinity. The American Christian Church continues to be a gigantic echo chamber. Go to most conservative Evangelical American churches and you will see a group of people that all look alike in an America that continues to diversify. An even more narrow group are the ones that buy into the hard line moralistic stances that the right wing evangelical christian church stands for...old white people. The ironic beauty is that these moralistic views stand in direct contrast to the man they supposedly follow.
 
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FuckmouthedRube said:
Definitely doesn't apply to Huckabee, Santorum, Pence, and Bachmann-true social conservative warriors who will never admit they were wrong, but you have to believe that some GOP pols who want to remain viable post-2016 have to be trying to find a way to back off their prior anti-gay positions. Romney's clearly bright enough to know the mariage equality battle's nearly over, but he still claims to be in favor of a constitutional amendment. Mitt seems to be actively trying to preserve his position as Adolph Rupp in the 1966 NCAA finals or Bear Bryant until the early '70s. Everyone else has pretty much figured it out and is trying to distance themselves and the "religious freedom" angle is a tactic. There isn't a war on Christmas and churches who do want to marry gays have a much better argument about government denying their religious freedoms.

The GOP got whiplash since they didn't realize marriage equality would accelerate as fast as it did. They should have backed off in 2010 after don't ask don't tell was repealed with 65 votes in the Senate and 70% popular approval. Their policy positions are bad enough, but the lame excuses they use (an incompetent government is going to confiscate 300 millions guns, self deportation, gay conversion therapy) makes them look significantly worse. If they had supported civil unions with equal rights to marriage, they wouldn't have burned so man bridges to the future. There are plenty of children of Southern pols who are Romney's age and have repudiated their parents' segregation views later in life. It's especially bad for Mitt, Santorum, and Bachmann who have huge extended families that are likely to include at least a few gay kids.
Click to expand...

They were much better at playing the fear game back in the early 2000s. Rove running the show knew what he was doing. The rhetoric today is all wrong.
 
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