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Possible Wake Forest Coaching Candidates Analysis

Pilchard said:
Agree that Smart's results at Texas have taken the shine off of him a little. Still would be happy with a Smart hire. Would also be happy with Nate Oats or John Brannen.
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Pilchard said:
Agree that Smart's results at Texas have taken the shine off of him a little. Still would be happy with a Smart hire. Would also be happy with Nate Oats or John Brannen.
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If both Matta and Smart would come, which would you pick (despite the fact that either of them coming is a minuscule possibility)?
 
That's a tough decision. Matta's success versus his health. Shaka's youth and intensity versus his mediocre job at Texas.

Shaka has more risk, but could have more reward due his ability to recruit.
 
DeaconSig said:
If both Matta and Smart would come, which would you pick (despite the fact that either of them coming is a minuscule possibility)?
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Assuming health, Matta.

Smart is well below .500 in conference play and is 0-2 in the NCAAs with Texas. He's recruited well but hasn't won consistently in Austin.
 
Lol, wait, we're talking about Shaka possibly coaching freaking Richmond next year? Some of y'all have gone off the deep end.
 
Shaka has been fairly mediocre over the last 4 years. For the first 2 of those, Matta was also mediocre. For the second 2, he has been unemployed.
 
Deacs9394 said:
I'll grant some of what is here. You make a really good case. And I'm likely being hyperbolic by saying he'd be a bad hire. But you have to agree it would be risky based on the evidence in front of us. In response to some of your points, context matters. Look deeper at Anthony Grant's run at VCU. 3 first place finishes, 2 NCAA appearances, an NIT, and an upset of Duke to advance to the round of 32. Smart then took over and with Larry Sanders on the team, the 15th pick that spring, only finished in 5th and no NCAA nor NIT. Then his run picks up, as you point out, yet still no first place finishes. And the idea that he had the most wins in the league over that span is a good one...still, isn't that also the case for Anthony Grant and Will Wade? When Wade took over they went to the NCAA both years, won a league regular season, and advanced out of the first round in the NCAAs. So, again, relatively speaking, his tenure at VCU is no better, or maybe barely better, than any of those guys.

Then he goes to Texas and they're not very good. And the folks that keep talking about KP ratings...ugh! Please look at what really matters in basketball...his record. They're under .500 right now and the schedule looks like at best they're going to finish at .500 but more likely under. If they finish under .500, do you realize Smart's only above .500 team at Texas will have been Barnes leftovers in his first year? Since then, under .500 each season. And again, with talent! He had the #6 pick overall last year and finished 8-10 in the Big 12. Just look at the evidence. I know what my eyes tell me...he's a mediocre coach in a Power 6 conference.

For me, I'd rather a Nates Oats hire or another one of the up and comers with the gamble we could strike gold. We have data and evidence of Smart going from mid-major to Power 6 and it hasn't been very good at all. With all that said, if the stars align and we get Smart, it could work. Maybe he's better suited for a place like Wake. And maybe he has learned from the mistakes and problems at Texas.
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Good post.
 
RJKarl said:
That's a tough decision. Matta's success versus his health. Shaka's youth and intensity versus his mediocre job at Texas.

Shaka has more risk, but could have more reward due his ability to recruit.
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I would say that there is more risk with Matta than with Smart. If his health was truly bad enough for him to step down from Ohio State because it was negatively impacting his effectiveness, then I really question his ability to take on such a massive rebuild at Wake.
 
Deacs9394 said:
I'll grant some of what is here. You make a really good case. And I'm likely being hyperbolic by saying he'd be a bad hire. But you have to agree it would be risky based on the evidence in front of us. In response to some of your points, context matters. Look deeper at Anthony Grant's run at VCU. 3 first place finishes, 2 NCAA appearances, an NIT, and an upset of Duke to advance to the round of 32. Smart then took over and with Larry Sanders on the team, the 15th pick that spring, only finished in 5th and no NCAA nor NIT. Then his run picks up, as you point out, yet still no first place finishes. And the idea that he had the most wins in the league over that span is a good one...still, isn't that also the case for Anthony Grant and Will Wade? When Wade took over they went to the NCAA both years, won a league regular season, and advanced out of the first round in the NCAAs. So, again, relatively speaking, his tenure at VCU is no better, or maybe barely better, than any of those guys.

Then he goes to Texas and they're not very good. And the folks that keep talking about KP ratings...ugh! Please look at what really matters in basketball...his record. They're under .500 right now and the schedule looks like at best they're going to finish at .500 but more likely under. If they finish under .500, do you realize Smart's only above .500 team at Texas will have been Barnes leftovers in his first year? Since then, under .500 each season. And again, with talent! He had the #6 pick overall last year and finished 8-10 in the Big 12. Just look at the evidence. I know what my eyes tell me...he's a mediocre coach in a Power 6 conference.

For me, I'd rather a Nates Oats hire or another one of the up and comers with the gamble we could strike gold. We have data and evidence of Smart going from mid-major to Power 6 and it hasn't been very good at all. With all that said, if the stars align and we get Smart, it could work. Maybe he's better suited for a place like Wake. And maybe he has learned from the mistakes and problems at Texas.[/QUOTE]

UT ran off a better coach than Shaka in Barnes and he seems to be doing alright.
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tagsfan said:
Deacs9394 said:
I'll grant some of what is here. You make a really good case. And I'm likely being hyperbolic by saying he'd be a bad hire. But you have to agree it would be risky based on the evidence in front of us. In response to some of your points, context matters. Look deeper at Anthony Grant's run at VCU. 3 first place finishes, 2 NCAA appearances, an NIT, and an upset of Duke to advance to the round of 32. Smart then took over and with Larry Sanders on the team, the 15th pick that spring, only finished in 5th and no NCAA nor NIT. Then his run picks up, as you point out, yet still no first place finishes. And the idea that he had the most wins in the league over that span is a good one...still, isn't that also the case for Anthony Grant and Will Wade? When Wade took over they went to the NCAA both years, won a league regular season, and advanced out of the first round in the NCAAs. So, again, relatively speaking, his tenure at VCU is no better, or maybe barely better, than any of those guys.

Then he goes to Texas and they're not very good. And the folks that keep talking about KP ratings...ugh! Please look at what really matters in basketball...his record. They're under .500 right now and the schedule looks like at best they're going to finish at .500 but more likely under. If they finish under .500, do you realize Smart's only above .500 team at Texas will have been Barnes leftovers in his first year? Since then, under .500 each season. And again, with talent! He had the #6 pick overall last year and finished 8-10 in the Big 12. Just look at the evidence. I know what my eyes tell me...he's a mediocre coach in a Power 6 conference.

For me, I'd rather a Nates Oats hire or another one of the up and comers with the gamble we could strike gold. We have data and evidence of Smart going from mid-major to Power 6 and it hasn't been very good at all. With all that said, if the stars align and we get Smart, it could work. Maybe he's better suited for a place like Wake. And maybe he has learned from the mistakes and problems at Texas.[/QUOTE]

UT ran off a better coach than Shaka in Barnes and he seems to be doing alright.
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Barnes first four seasons are light years ahead of Shaka's first four seasons at Texas, even though Shaka has had some great recruiting classes. Why are his teams consistently underperforming?
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How do Shaka’s (almost) four years compare to the final four years of Barnes at Texas? Doing no research, it seems roughly equal to me.
 
Shaka suffered the curse of Mo Bamba. Kind of like Prosser getting caught short whe CP3 left early. Not sure Shaka system works well with 1&dones. I guess he knew up front that Bamba would after 1 year.
 
And he lost Jarrett Allen after a year.

Bamba told the world he would have preferred not to go to college at all. Shaka knew this.
 
advancedeac said:
Shaka suffered the curse of Mo Bamba. Kind of like Prosser getting caught short whe CP3 left early. Not sure Shaka system works well with 1&dones. I guess he knew up front that Bamba would after 1 year.
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RJKarl said:
And he lost Jarrett Allen after a year.

Bamba told the world he would have preferred not to go to college at all. Shaka knew this.
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That may have been some lessons for Shaka. One and dones don't work well in his system as he had it. System may need some tweaking or he may have to avoid most of the one year guys. If NBA changes their minimum age, won't be a problem in the future.
 
advancedeac said:
Shaka suffered the curse of Mo Bamba. Kind of like Prosser getting caught short whe CP3 left early. Not sure Shaka system works well with 1&dones. I guess he knew up front that Bamba would after 1 year.
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I don't see this as similar at all to the Prosser-Paul thing...we were good with Paul and struggled when he left early. Texas was mediocre with Bamba and mediocre when he left. As I see it below average coaching with the #6 pick. Consider this...Texas with Bamba went 19-15, 8-10 and was unranked. With Paul, Prosser went 48-16, 22-10 and ranked 17th and 5th.
 
Deaconblue said:
That may have been some lessons for Shaka. One and dones don't work well in his system as he had it. System may need some tweaking or he may have to avoid most of the one year guys. If NBA changes their minimum age, won't be a problem in the future.
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This has merit.

Our roster for next year should have some Shaka-esque players in Brown, Wright, Sarr, Mucius, Massoud.
 
Deacs9394 said:
I don't see this as similar at all to the Prosser-Paul thing...we were good with Paul and struggled when he left early. Texas was mediocre with Bamba and mediocre when he left. As I see it below average coaching with the #6 pick. Consider this...Texas with Bamba went 19-15, 8-10 and was unranked. With Paul, Prosser went 48-16, 22-10 and ranked 17th and 5th.
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Well yeah, it helps that one of them is one of the 20 greatest players ever and the other one probably won't crack the top 300.
 
KennyRogersRoast said:
How do Shaka’s (almost) four years compare to the final four years of Barnes at Texas? Doing no research, it seems roughly equal to me.
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Not sure on KP overall, but Shakas team is ranked well (27, 4th in B12) this season with a meh W/L against a tough SOS. They have lost a lot of close games.

Last 4 seasons Barnes went 35-37 (.487) in conference, 1-3 in ncaa. Missed tourney 1 year.

Shaka is 29-37 (.439) and 0-2 ncaa. Missed 1x, prob a double digit seed as it stands now.

Barnes worst stretch still seems better than Shakas run, and that got him fired.

Also assuming Shaka has had much stronger recruiting overall during this period.
 
If you hate Manning's offense, go back and watch the Texas/Baylor game. Texas just stands around against the zone for 10+ minutes of the 2nd half before jacking up terrible shot after terrible shot. Looked awfully familiar. They only managed to stay in it because one of their guys caught fire and was hitting fade away leaners from deep.

I was intrigued by the Shaka rumors but that performance was pretty awful.
 
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