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Republicans for POTUS, 2016 Edition

Clearly some segment of conservatives believes life begins at conception, but it's not a huge percentage of voters. If it were, personhood amendments would pass easily. They've been defeated in Mississippi and North Dakota and lost three times in Colorado. They have yet to pass anywhere. Contrast that with anti-gay marriage bans which won with wide margins in roughly 30 states. Most people are squeamish about abortions, but that's not the same thing as giving a fertilized egg the same rights as an actual person.

Get that anti-abortion politics are huge in conservative circles, but don't get why there were 40+ Obamacare repeal votes instead of 40 abortion constitutional bans. Neither was ever going to pass in the Senate or be ratified, but at least one is considered murder by some people.
 
"An African-American woman is almost five times likelier to have an abortion than a white woman, and a Latina more than twice as likely, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The rate of abortion among American women is currently at its lowest point since Roe v. Wade, according to a recent report by the Guttmacher Institute."

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/abortions-racial-gap/380251/

Two interesting stats presented without comment.
 
"She emphasized that money is often a decisive factor. The median wealth of white households is 18 times that of Hispanic households and 20 times that of black households, according to the Pew Research Center, but across the board, low-income women have a higher rate of unintended pregnancy and abortion regardless of race. They are less likely to have health insurance or consistent access to healthcare, and therefore birth control, according to a study by the Kaiser Family Foundation."

"The only demographic in which African-Americans do not have the highest abortion rate is among women below the poverty line, where Latinas come in first."

Two more.

Same article
 
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We have kind of gotten off track here so i will bow out and say that I am grateful that abortion rates are dropping. I think that people play a game of mental gymnastics to convince themselves to be ok with the convenience of abortion. It is certainly simpler and easier for society to throw away our mistakes then have to deal with them. I am hopeful for the future as I believe the viability argent will become less and less persuasive as technology and science advance.

Now we can resume our regular scheduled programming of bashing republican candidates for president. Thanks for the vigorous discussion. It is pretty clear this is a topic i have a great deal of passion about which is why PHs insinuation that conservatives 'give up' on Roe v. Wade hit close to home. Peace.
 
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Wrangor said:
Why would you be against it if you don't consider it a life lost?
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I know you've bowed out but to address phan09's point, there are entire cultures that are deeply against body modification of any kind, including tattoos, piercings, and even (or especially) elective surgery.
 
ONW said:
"She emphasized that money is often a decisive factor. The median wealth of white households is 18 times that of Hispanic households and 20 times that of black households, according to the Pew Research Center, but across the board, low-income women have a higher rate of unintended pregnancy and abortion regardless of race. They are less likely to have health insurance or consistent access to healthcare, and therefore birth control, according to a study by the Kaiser Family Foundation."

"The only demographic in which African-Americans do not have the highest abortion rate is among women below the poverty line, where Latinas come in first."

Two more.

Same article
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Addressing income and health care disparities would be an effective way to reduce abortions.
 
PhDeac said:
Addressing income and health care disparities would be an effective way to reduce abortions.
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Yep.

I'm pro-life, which is actually why I tend to vote more with the left - I actually think it's the party that's more pro-life

Death Penalty - which side seeks to preserve life?

Abortion - 70% of abortions are done for economic reasons (stat from memory, I can try to tack it down if someone wants to argue it)

So which party seeks to extend healthcare, making the cost of having a child manageable?

Which party seeks to raise the minimum wage, increasing the chance a mom (esp, single mom) can care for the child?

Which party is pushing for maternity leave?

Which party is pushing for greater access to childcare and early childhood education?

Which party is pushing for greater access to birth control and non abstinence-only education?

All of these things would reduce the abortion rate in the country and work on the core of the issue.

On the flip side, which party seeks simply to pass legislation, doing nothing to work with the underlying causes of abortion - most likely driving abortions underground?


edited to add: I am in favor of legislating limits on abortions, and pretty strict limits as long as measures are being taken to help parents care for the child. Being actually pro-life and not just pro-birth.
 
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Trump has reportedly scheduled an announcement on his 2016 intentions for June 16. Get that Trump lives for publicity, but can't see him actually running. A loss would be devastating to his ego. Same reason Palin hasn't run for President and why Santorum bowed out before PA in 2012. Would love to see Trump campaign in Iowa, but it's not going to happen.
 
Thunderbolt is right, the left is far more the party of "advancing life" than the right. No doubt about it.



"If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."
 
Junebug said:
I'll chime in here: a person could be anti-abortion but not think abortion is murder if they think a fetus isn't a human yet but it is still morally wrong to end its life, much in the same way it would be morally wrong to kill a dog, for example, for no reason. A life is lost in the process, even if it isn't a human one.
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That doesn't make too much sense. I've never heard of a human fetus morphing into a dog or a cat or a dolphin between conception and birth. If you eat an egg, which in most cases isn't even fertilized, do you not think of it as a foregone chicken?
 
I think of it as damn delicious.

Especially with some pepper, cheese, and Tabasco on top. Yuuuuummmmm!
 
WakeandBake said:
Thunderbolt is right, the left is far more the party of "advancing life" than the right. No doubt about it.



"If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."
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Wrangor is right. Posts like Thunderbolt's are used to help people rationalize a certain amount of lying to one's conscience. How many social programs do I have to be in favor of before I can feel good about ending an unrelated human life?
 
Like I said, I'm in favor of legislating strict limits on abortion (I'd actually be in favor of a total ban except in cases of rape, incest, and endangerment of another life) - I just think if you do so without addressing underlying problems the lead to the majority of abortions performed, it's just window dressing that actually leads to the endangerment of more life. And the way the current debate is framed, there is no both/and option. If the choice is either enact legislation banning abortion or offer support to help mothers actually care for children - I believe that the latter is the better option that actually reduces the number of abortions performed.
 
No guilty conscience here when you are aborting rapidly dividing cells, with limits to abortion early abortion seems alright to a lot of people. The concept of life begins at conception is held by a small minority of people and is a silly concept to begin with because you can get a sperm and egg cell to begin division outside the body fairly easily.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
Like I said, I'm in favor of legislating strict limits on abortion (I'd actually be in favor of a total ban except in cases of rape, incest, and endangerment of another life) - I just think if you do so without addressing underlying problems the lead to the majority of abortions performed, it's just window dressing that actually leads to the endangerment of more life. And the way the current debate is framed, there is no both/and option. If the choice is either enact legislation banning abortion or offer support to help mothers actually care for children - I believe that the latter is the better option that actually reduces the number of abortions performed.
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I get what you're saying, but your post was a little too close to the moral equivalency-ends justify the means fire for me. If we're against abortion, then let's find a better way (and there are plenty).
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
No guilty conscience here when you are aborting rapidly dividing cells, with limits to abortion early abortion seems alright to a lot of people. The concept of life begins at conception is held by a small minority of people and is a silly concept to begin with because you can get a sperm and egg cell to begin division outside the body fairly easily.
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So we draw the line at "if you can't support yourself, you're not alive." Don't tell that to any newborns.
 
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