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Republicans for POTUS, 2016 Edition

Well what a relief that it isn't.

All I want to do is what your parents did: care about your upbringing, support your education, set a good example for you and have expectations. Ya know, things that actually work when they are tried, even if they are hard. The difference is that I believe all parents are capable of this. Apparently you guys aren't as sure. Sad.

My upbringing and your upbringing (presumably) are a shit ton different from a lot of people's upbringing in America. Stop reflecting your own privileged life experiences on everyone else. That would make you a self-absorbed twat. Don't be a self-absorbed twat.
 
My upbringing and your upbringing (presumably) are a shit ton different from a lot of people's upbringing in America. Stop reflecting your own privileged life experiences on everyone else. That would make you a self-absorbed twat. Don't be a self-absorbed twat.

[as I so often say, apologies in advance for the length]

I respectfully disagree. I think everyone is entitled to the privilege of expectations, and I don't believe it is helpful to say that "Well, because your parent(s) didn't go to college, you can get pregnant in high school, and it's not your fault. You lack privilege." The seventeen year old mother of two with a tenth grade education doesn't fail to provide for them because she lacks privilege, she fails to provide for them because she lacks marketable skills (and now the ability to go out and obtain them). Please stop lying to her with the "privilege" narrative. We can debate whether or not it was the cause of her situation (at this point, as a certain fmr. Sec. of State would say, what difference does it make?). What is not up for debate is the left's bundle of lies (privilege, others not paying their fair share, etc.) will never solve one iota of her problems. For her sake, knock that shit off and let's start with the truth, please. Were you and I privileged? In a 1,000 ways, very few of which are replicatable at the tip of the entitlement program spear. What we can do is build our social temple on a firm foundation, which is personal accountability and expectations that people control the things they can control. Nothing else worth having is attainable without that.

If I'm giving you all the benefit of the doubt, your argument is "Jhmd, you self-absorbed twat, how dare you expect other people who didn't have your upbringing to complete a Small. Big. Tall. education and possibly rise to your upper middle class pedestal, what with like driving a Dodge Stratus, having a Netflix account and being able to buy your groceries at something other than a Food Lion? Jhmd, you titan of the upper middle class, not all of us can achieve your stunning successes. How dare you?"

Let's just assume that not everyone can grow in to attain the status of a jhmd (and certainly not a dv7 or of PhDeac) in a single generation. A Netflix account, pretentious niche fandom in European soccer and a sensible muscle sedan are all just out of reach. You've convinced me: they broke the mold when they made the three of us. Ironically enough, it is you who has led me to fully appreciate my self. dv7, you are like my self-absorption Ben Kenobi.

But what if we didn't calibrate the expectations scale to middle management message board poster and a job with a chair in one generation, like self-absorbed jhmd naively thinks we could probably get away with. What if we ratcheted the old expectations-o-meter down a few increments to "Don't actively harm your chances of upward mobility, finish your free education (I'm not talking about MSD, I'm talking about Speas, Cook and Parkland. Parkland High School is going to stamp out 300 graduates this year. Go be one of them, versus the alternative. Because the alternative has consequences.), make responsible choices with the structure of your family, take the best available job for your skillset while always working on improving and expanding it, and give it four decades and see what happens." Who do you believe is not ready for that advice? Who is incapable of that, guys? R.I.P. Content of One's Character. 1963-2015.

The crux of our dispute is that you guys think that personal responsibility and expectations show up after upward mobility, and that is not "fair" to believe other people are capable of wise choices until [some ambiguous point in the future which is always just over the horizon of the passage of the next round of subsistence entitlement programs]. I think the tough love of truth that other people and the government are not going to solve your problems for you has to come first, and I honestly don't see how anything useful happens until we start there. Twenty more years of failed programs and dealing the privilege opiate aren't going to make a positive difference, if past performance is any indication.
 
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You would save yourself a lot of time if you just copied that post into a Word document, saved it, and re-posted it every two to three days.
 
You would save yourself a lot of time if you just copied that post into a Word document, saved it, and re-posted it every two to three days.

Persuading those in self-delusion is a pain-staking, worthy endeavor.
 
Seems to me that the best way to make sure any person has the best opportunities is to give them money. Not welfare-money, fuck-you money. Better lifestyles, better health, better education, higher life expectancies, stable family lives- all of these strongly correlate with wealth.

So if we make people rich, we can solve the rest of these problems.
 
Seems to me that the best way to make sure any person has the best opportunities is to give them money. Not welfare-money, fuck-you money. Better lifestyles, better health, better education, higher life expectancies, stable family lives- all of these strongly correlate with wealth.

So if we make people rich, we can solve the rest of these problems.

Welfare-money is fuck-them money.
 
Nice dodge. I can see why you wouldn't want to actually discuss the idea. I'll put it this way- in 30 years, the people who are rich now and become rich over that time period will be better off than anyone else, two parent household or not.
 
Nice dodge. I can see why you wouldn't want to actually discuss the idea. I'll put it this way- in 30 years, the people who are rich now and become rich over that time period will be better off than anyone else, two parent household or not.

Projection will get you nowhere. I'm not worried about the rich people. We're not comparing how rich people are going to do versus people in poverty (what could be less relevant than that unfair comparison?). The question is how we help people who aren't there reach their full potential. A belly full of feel good lies about rich people must feel great (as often as we hear them, it must be better than a Cookout milkshake), but it doesn't solve anything for the people who need help.

The proper comparison is what course of action does our society seek to promote for people in poverty. The path of dependency creates a floor that you are comfortable with and a ceiling I object to. In your 30 years, I'm betting on the guys who make good choices in their family structure, finish their educations and work. I don't see what 30 more years of dependency---and most harmfully the example it sets for years 31-60----accomplishes.

That guy with the primered van with two ladders on the roof rack covered in paint, speaking his second language and not eligible for the programs that you think will solve his problems is going to wipe the floor with Now That's What I Call Entitlement Programs(TM), Generation VIII. See you in 30.
 
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Projection will get you nowhere. I'm not worried about the rich people. We're not comparing how rich people are going to do versus people in poverty (what could be less relevant than that unfair comparison?). The question is how we help people who aren't there reach their full potential. A belly full of feel good lies about rich people must feel great (as often as we hear them, it must be better than a Cookout milkshake), but it doesn't solve anything for the people who need help.

The proper comparison is what course of action does our society seek to promote for people in poverty. The path of dependency creates a floor that you are comfortable with and a ceiling I object to. In your 30 years, I'm betting on the guys who make good choices in their family structure, finish their educations and work. I don't see what 30 more years of dependency---and most harmfully the example it sets for years 31-60----accomplishes.

That guy with the primered van with two ladders on the roof rack covered in paint, speaking his second language and not eligible for the programs that you think will solve his problems is going to wipe the floor with Now That's What I Call Entitlement Programs(TM), Generation VIII. See you in 30.

You take welfare away from the guy with the primered van. I'll give the 19 year-old with 2 kids $100M. In 30 years, we'll see who is better off.
 
You take welfare away from the guy with the primered van. I'll give the 19 year-old with 2 kids $100M. In 30 years, we'll see who is better off.

I bet we can find out in 1/2 that time.

On May 18, 2010, Walker filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection in the Southern District of Florida (Miami) as case number 10-23558 with total assets of $4.3 million and debts of $12.7 million. The filing listed four pieces of real estate including a $2.3 million Miami home that was underwater with a mortgage of $3.6 million, and three other properties in Chicago, one listed for $1.4 million. Nazr Mohammed paid half the fee of Walker's bankruptcy attorney. Walker's championship ring had to be sold off. In August 2013, Walker announced that he was debt-free.[19] Between 1996 and 2009, Walker earned more than $108 million from NBA salaries. [20]

And the guy in the primered van isn't eligible for welfare. That's why he has the ladders on top.
 
I bet we can find out in 1/2 that time.

On May 18, 2010, Walker filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection in the Southern District of Florida (Miami) as case number 10-23558 with total assets of $4.3 million and debts of $12.7 million. The filing listed four pieces of real estate including a $2.3 million Miami home that was underwater with a mortgage of $3.6 million, and three other properties in Chicago, one listed for $1.4 million. Nazr Mohammed paid half the fee of Walker's bankruptcy attorney. Walker's championship ring had to be sold off. In August 2013, Walker announced that he was debt-free.[19] Between 1996 and 2009, Walker earned more than $108 million from NBA salaries. [20]

And the guy in the primered van isn't eligible for welfare. That's why he has the ladders on top.

I'm trying to figure jhmd's point here.
 
I'm trying to figure jhmd's point here.

There isn't one. Donald Trump has gone bankrupt multiple times, and he grew up in a two parent household most likely with better financial advisers, lawyers, and opportunities.
 
I'm trying to figure jhmd's point here.

It isn't terribly complicated. Large amounts of paint will never fix a structural problem. 20T dollars and 50 years later (and no meaningful dent in poverty levels), that should be obvious. Sig thinks it's a resources problem. He's wrong.

Until we fix the family unit through policies designed to actually encourage healthy choices, we're wedded to this outcome.
 
Until we fix the family unit through policies designed to actually encourage healthy choices, we're wedded to this outcome.

Say what you really mean. Exactly which of our current policies discourage healthy choices, where is the causal data supporting that theory, and how do you intend to change those policies that you've deemed a discouragement?
 
Vasectomies for guys at birth. Required BC pills for women when they hit their period. Get married and you get your tubes untied and BC is no longer mandatory. Problem solved.
 
It isn't terribly complicated. Large amounts of paint will never fix a structural problem. 20T dollars and 50 years later (and no meaningful dent in poverty levels), that should be obvious. Sig thinks it's a resources problem. He's wrong.

Until we fix the family unit through policies designed to actually encourage healthy choices, we're wedded to this outcome.

Because of Antoine Walker?
 
Because of Antoine Walker?

Yes. That's the entirety of my argument. You've figured it out (by all means, please dutifully ignore Sig's post posing the question). That's the only time a person with little financial literacy and no mentorship experienced a windfall that didn't work out. Thanks a lot, Antoine Walker.
 
Professional sports leagues all full of people who greatly improved their situation and elevated their families by earning hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars at a young age. Antoine Walker is an extreme outlier. You made a very weak argument.
 
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