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Republicans Unanimously Block Equal Pay Bill

The bill doesn't solely address talking about salaries in the workplace though. It's also trying to make it easier, or really, less hard for people to sue their employers for discrimination, which is borderline impossible now.

Even if women do know they’re being discriminated against, it’s never been harder to sue. “Most women do not want to sue their employers,” Deborah Thompson Eisenberg, a law professor at the University of Maryland, testified before the Senate last week. “They want the law to express a stronger commitment to equal pay for equal work so employers will have an incentive to pay them fairly without the need for litigation.” After all, suing can be tantamount to “career suicide” – and it carries a lot of stress and risk.

“I often say to my clients, if you thought you were in a hostile workplace when you showed up at your job, when you look at the data you’ll see it’s an even more hostile environment in court,” said Cyrus Mehri, founding partner at Mehri & Skalet, which has litigated many employment discrimination cases. “There’s no question that there’s under-enforcement, not over-enforcement, of the law. Plaintiff’s lawyers turn down many, many cases that have merit, because they have to be so strong that they can withstand all the hurdles along the way.”

Even if a lawyer does take on an employee’s case on contingency, employers begin at a huge advantage: They have all the information, and many more resources. In an Equal Pay Act claim, or a sex discrimination claim brought under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, the employee has to find a “comparator,” another employee – say, a man – at the same company, whose job is the same and who has similar qualifications, but who is getting paid more. But proving that they are equivalent can be an uphill battle. “Some courts have interpreted ‘substantially equal work’ so narrowly that it’s really difficult to make a claim,” said Eisenberg. The Paycheck Fairness Act would broaden the pool a little.

The burden then shifts to the employer to show there’s a legitimate reason for paying the two people differently. But in many cases, employers have been able to vaguely blame “the market” or argue that because the woman was poorly paid in her previous job, it isn’t discrimination. The Paycheck Fairness Act would raise the standard for those justifications to make sure they actually had to do with the job being done.

Even if women do sue, it’s never been harder to win. The idea that women are cashing in on phony pay discrimination claims couldn’t be further from reality. In fact, the cases that are brought are tough to win, and getting tougher. According to Eisenberg’s research, from 1990 to 1999, employees won a little more than half of all equal pay claims. But from 2000 to 2009, that dropped to about a third. And in that same decade, courts granted summary judgment – i.e. a ruling without a trial – to employers in such cases 72% of the time. That matches the grim overall picture for any kind of employee civil rights claim, according to an empirical study in the Harvard Law and Policy Review. It found that compared to other plaintiffs, the odds were stacked against employees making discrimination claims at every stage of litigation. (The win rates were slightly better when a jury was making the call.)

And the numbers became a self-fulfilling prophecy: Lawyers are ever more reluctant to take a case they’re likely to lose. Since 1999, the authors found a “startling drop” in the number of such cases filed in federal court. That’s not because discrimination has disappeared: The number of pay discrimination claims brought to the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has barely budged in the same time frame. And that’s just the women who knew they were being discriminated against.

Why are the courts so hostile? It may be because their criteria are poorly matched to the realities of the modern workforce. Former federal judge and Harvard law professor Nancy Gertner has written that “just as the social-psychological literature is exploding with studies about implicit race and gender bias – in organizational settings, in apparently neutral evaluative processes, and among decision-makers of different races and genders – federal discrimination law lurches in the opposite direction, often ignoring or trivializing evidence of explicit bias.”

The data also shows how much conservative, Chamber of Commerce types have triumped over the judiciary. That’s partly, but not wholly, because the Bush administration did such a good job of appointing such judges. Obama’s judicial picks, few of whom have experience in such civil rights claims, aren’t encouraging to advocates who specialize in these cases. “Packing the court with corporate lawyers does little to protect Title VII or employees’ access to the courthouse door,” wrote Cyrus Mehri and Ellen Eardley in an issue brief for the American Constitution Society.
 
The bill doesn't solely address talking about salaries in the workplace though. It's also trying to make it easier, or really, less hard for people to sue their employers for discrimination, which is borderline impossible now.

I know this thread (except Avalon) is "democratic good republican bad hulk smash," but I practice employment law and this quote is just so wrong I don't even know where to begin.
 
So here's the thing. I believe it's pretty well established that the 77% number is an irresponsibly misleading number when discussing whether women are paid less because they are discriminated against in the workforce.
I have heard of/seen many a study that shows that when controlling for experience, education, industry and probably a few other things the gap is shown to be very insignificant if not non-existent and I've never heard any good counterarguments to those studies
All that being said, I tend to think this isn't a big problem and the legislation proposed just seems ridiculous and is likely some bullshit posturing so that democrats can say that "Republican candidate X voted against a bill to help women have equal pay" in their campaign spot.
 
77% figure is better than the controlled 90ish% figure and it's not close. The decisions that lead to the 90% controlled figure aren't independent of gender discrimination.
 
77% figure is better than the controlled 90ish% figure and it's not close. The decisions that lead to the 90% controlled figure aren't independent of gender discrimination.

It depends on the argument. How is this bill going to change the gender mix in teaching?
 
It depends on the argument. How is this bill going to change the gender mix in teaching?

Don't think there's anything in it dealing with that.

Negotiations and knowing what to ask for really are a big deal though.

My real point is that 77% (78% in latest data) is better than the 90% figure, unless one thinks that women should be less educated and work jobs with less responsibility than men.
 
Take a two-earner family that can only send one person to college to get a better job or advancement opportunity. They're sure as shit not going to send the wife who'll only be paid 90% of what the husband would.
 
I know this thread (except Avalon) is "democratic good republican bad hulk smash," but I practice employment law and this quote is just so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

Try. I was quoting other articles.
 
Don't think there's anything in it dealing with that.

Negotiations and knowing what to ask for really are a big deal though.

My real point is that 77% (78% in latest data) is better than the 90% figure, unless one thinks that women should be less educated and work jobs with less responsibility than men.

OK, but the fixes proposed by politicians are attempting to correct the 90%, not the 77%. So using 77% in the articles and statements relating to this bill (and most proposals) is misleading.
 
OK, but the fixes proposed by politicians are attempting to correct the 90%, not the 77%. So using 77% in the articles and statements relating to this bill (and most proposals) is misleading.

We need to make the payoff for more school and more responsibility equal (i.e. fix the 92% problem) to get women to do more school and take on more responsibility. Fixing the controlled gender pay gap changes the calculus on the decisions that create the uncontrolled gender pay gap.
 
OK, but the fixes proposed by politicians are attempting to correct the 90%, not the 77%. So using 77% in the articles and statements relating to this bill (and most proposals) is misleading.

Another example of misleading numbers is when a politician promises a specific number of jobs created, like the vaunted Scott Walker 250k job creation. You can incentivize job growth, you can help people make their decisions, you can create preferable conditions for job growth, but in terms of concretely creating jobs, that's something businesses do, for a very complicated number of reasons. Democrats typically try to do it by improving education opportunities and expanding access to job programs, Republicans try to do it with tax breaks and by lowering regulations. The former is a long term strategy, the latter a short term one, yet neither of them can account concretely for numbers of job growth.

And yet much like 250,000 jobs is just a thing politicians say to get elected, 78% sounds like a much bigger problem than 90%, which can be explained away. It's a political tool, and if the end goal is gender pay equality, I'm not sure what's so dishonest about it, especially if you can explain how you get there. The controls that do get factored in still can't account for so many of the externalities that lower pay for women.
 
We need to make the payoff for more school and more responsibility equal (i.e. fix the 92% problem) to get women to do more school and take on more responsibility. Fixing the controlled gender pay gap changes the calculus on the decisions that create the uncontrolled gender pay gap.

How much of that 13% differential do you believe is due to the scenario you noted above? I would argue that the gender split in teaching is a larger factor. And teachers are educated, they chose a career path with lower pay.

I'd also argue that women take jobs with less responsibility for family reasons as well, which wouldn't be changed by this bill, unless it flips the financial incentive to the opposite side.

Have there been any studies that isolate for career but not education / training?

BTW, I believe the number of women going to college surpassed men a few years back.
 
Another example of misleading numbers is when a politician promises a specific number of jobs created, like the vaunted Scott Walker 250k job creation. You can incentivize job growth, you can help people make their decisions, you can create preferable conditions for job growth, but in terms of concretely creating jobs, that's something businesses do, for a very complicated number of reasons. Democrats typically try to do it by improving education opportunities and expanding access to job programs, Republicans try to do it with tax breaks and by lowering regulations. The former is a long term strategy, the latter a short term one, yet neither of them can account concretely for numbers of job growth.

And yet much like 250,000 jobs is just a thing politicians say to get elected, 78% sounds like a much bigger problem than 90%, which can be explained away. It's a political tool, and if the end goal is gender pay equality, I'm not sure what's so dishonest about it, especially if you can explain how you get there. The controls that do get factored in still can't account for so many of the externalities that lower pay for women.

My issue is that I don't believe the larger goal with this bill is gender pay equality so much as political maneuvering.
 
My issue is that I don't believe the larger goal with this bill is gender pay equality so much as political maneuvering.

Seems pretty cynical for a liberal. Maybe not the outcome, but at least the goal?
 
This is one of the many gotcha bills that each side will propose so they can say "LOOK, not one ___ voted for ______!!!!!!!!"
 
So here's the thing. I believe it's pretty well established that the 77% number is an irresponsibly misleading number when discussing whether women are paid less because they are discriminated against in the workforce.
I have heard of/seen many a study that shows that when controlling for experience, education, industry and probably a few other things the gap is shown to be very insignificant if not non-existent and I've never heard any good counterarguments to those studies
All that being said, I tend to think this isn't a big problem and the legislation proposed just seems ridiculous and is likely some bullshit posturing so that democrats can say that "Republican candidate X voted against a bill to help women have equal pay" in their campaign spot.

Let me get this straight: a) women make only 77% of the income men do for the same work AND b) women are discriminated against in the marketplace. If a) was true, it seems to me that b) would be the reverse. Is the theory that greedy, money-grubbing capitalists hate women so much that they are overpaying men for the same work, because they hate women they've never met more than they love their own money?
 
Seems pretty cynical for a liberal. Maybe not the outcome, but at least the goal?

Politicians make me super cynical. Throw in the timing, and the fact that it had absolutely no Republican support (which leads me to believe they knew it wouldn't pass), and I can't see it as anything else. I guess you could make the argument that they are fighting to elect people that would work towards better solutions that would close the wage gap?

And of course I know that you all want the end goal of equal pay.
 
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