Respect & Patriotism vs. Free Speech & Protest

[jhmd2000]

learn what, how to let you steer a thread about protesting racism into one that blames blacks for racism?

Do you deny that you are blaming bad cop behavior on bad black people behavior? Can you man up to that?

Predictably bad outcomes result from predictably bad behavior. When a supermajority of people are born into households set up to fail, you're going to have more bad outcomes. A supermajority of those bad outcomes having nothing to do with police activity at all; good, bad or otherwise. That's how scale works.

Dems only wish to focus on the superminority of bad outcomes that result at the hands of police, and bristle at the notion of discussing the supermajority. I read the shit you write on these pages, no sense spinning your way out of it now.

Some of us wish to work big to small. Others...care deeply and passionately about #anecdotes, because it gives them an excuse not to talk about the epidemics that don't fit their persecution narrative. You're in that latter group, sport.

So you latch on to heroes like this guy:

because it's the off-ramp to addressing problems that actually impact real people's lives in a statistically significant way. Interesting choices you guys make. But you care, right?

 

[TownieDeac]

there is actually some decent stuff on the #veteransforkaepernick hashtag:

Essentially it all follows the (paraphrased) Voltaire: “I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

jh is probably one of the biggest fans of erasure on the board, silencing or minimizing the voices of people with legitimate complaints. He'd like you to think it is because he's so large-hearted he cares about the bigger picture. It's just smoke and mirrors for the devastating lack of ideas his party has for actual policy.

 

[WakeandBake]

sigh

I know your style too well, im not one of the posters who falls for this line of bullshit, that's why you and I get along so well.

Please go through the board history and pull out all my posts about racism. I'll bet you a bottle of bourbon that you cannot find me blaming racism for low economic status of black people. I am confident because I avoid race/racism threads like the plague. In fact, on this thread all I did was agreed with the tweet the black woman made (about protest, not wealth inequality) and you trolled me on it, then spun that into your diatribe about economic decisions and behavior of blacks, and away from protesting racist cops.

You insist that if blacks "acted right" they would not get hazed by cops or be held under a different level of scrutiny than whites simply because of skin color. Everyone reading this knows that is complete bullshit, yet you still double down on it. Your arrogance on this is astounding, and Im an arrogant fuck myself.

I'm all about addressing the economic condition of black people and poor people of all colors in America. We have done it many times, and you have failed to produce statistics I have asked for, but that's for another thread. Go ahead and start a fresh one, Ill play.

 

[jhmd2000]

sigh

I know your style too well, im not one of the posters who falls for this line of bullshit, that's why you and I get along so well.

Please go through the board history and pull out all my posts about racism. I'll bet you a bottle of bourbon that you cannot find me blaming racism for low economic status of black people. I am confident because I avoid race/racism threads like the plague. In fact, on this thread all I did was agreed with the tweet the black woman made (about protest, not wealth inequality) and you trolled me on it, then spun that into your diatribe about economic decisions and behavior of blacks, and away from protesting racist cops.

You insist that if blacks "acted right" they would not get hazed by cops or be held under a different level of scrutiny than whites simply because of skin color. Everyone reading this knows that is complete bullshit, yet you still double down on it. Your arrogance on this is astounding, and Im an arrogant fuck myself.

I'm all about addressing the economic condition of black people and poor people of all colors in America. We have done it many times, and you have failed to produce statistics I have asked for, but that's for another thread. Go ahead and start a fresh one, Ill play.

That isn't what I said. At all. You keep claiming App State, but I'm beginning to think you went to the #Charlotte School of Law.

I'm saying that we have a racism problem in America, and we have a police brutality/profiling problem in America, and neither of those problems are "earned/warranted/deserved" [so you can kindly stop attributing that nonsense whenever you're ready], but the scale of those problems isn't what is holding a majority of people back. They are disconnected from the problems that are widespread, but most importantly they are also dwarfed by those problems. Lap 3,478 on the small scale problems eventually stops making you a hero, when that dialogue displaces/obfuscates the bigger issues.

If you're looking to actually make things better, let's focus on the epidemic problems. If you're looking to be a hero SJW, by all means, fap away on Lap 3,479. I'm calling the latter behavior out, but suit yourself.

 

[knowell]

Kaep claimed he was protesting a country that treated people differently because of race. Is it wrong to discuss whether or not that is a correct presumption as a whole?

JMHD is making the case that much of what is perceived as racial injustice may be socioeconomical and thus have a root other than racism. Whether or not you agree, is this not the appropriate thread to make that argument?

 

[Deacon923]

Yea. It's worth it for the 1% of times when he says something insightful.

Given the volume of posts, I would say those nuggets are far less than 1%.

This post is a real work of art:

Predictably bad outcomes result from predictably bad behavior. When a supermajority of people are born into households set up to fail, you're going to have more bad outcomes. A supermajority of those bad outcomes having nothing to do with police activity at all; good, bad or otherwise. That's how scale works. Nobody disagrees with this.

Dems only wish to focus on the superminority of bad outcomes that result at the hands of police, and bristle at the notion of discussing the supermajority. Complete straw man argument. On a thread about Colin Kaepernick, the only reason anyone bristles at the notion of discussing what you want to talk about is that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. I read the shit you write on these pages, no sense spinning your way out of it now.

Some of us wish to work big to small. Translation: do nothingOthers...care deeply and passionately about #anecdotes, because it gives them an excuse not to talk about the epidemics that don't fit their persecution narrative. You're in that latter group, sport. Ad hominem attack

So you latch on to heroes like this guy:

because it's the off-ramp to addressing problems that actually impact real people's lives in a statistically significant way. Interesting choices you guys make. Assigns poster to a group called "you guys" so that all the worst behaviors of said group can be falsely attributed to posterBut you care, right?

Just a trolling work of art.

To address the substance of this thread:
Colin K. can do whatever he wants, and other people are free to think he's an idiot. Personally, I think sitting for the national anthem as an act of protest against police violence is fairly pointless. Worse, it has not brought any additional positive attention to the issue, only negative attention. Wearing pig socks is a rude and unproductive attack on all police officers as opposed to targeting the policies and structures that fail to hold bad cops responsible.

To address the red herrings: Police reform advocates are asking police departments and unions around the country to reform their internal policies to be more transparent and get rid of bad cops. They're asking for action at the state legislature level to drive those objectives, and to some extent federal action. How is it, exactly, that these initiatives are preventing anyone, anywhere, from addressing the "big problems" of poverty, single parenthood, etc. etc. ? Are the police unions doing a ton of work to prevent single parenthood and now BLM is distracting them from teaching abstinence classes? Is the Congress, which has accomplished essentially nothing in 6 years, so busy that spending some time on police violence will drastically cripple its heroic efforts to fix black high school graduation rates? Is the North Carolina legislature, which found the time to pass laws making police body-cams as un-transparent as possible while also busily defunding public schools and passing HB2 in record time, unable to now turn some attention to holding bad police officers accountable?

The argument is specious at best. Actually, it's worse than specious, it's an intentional attempt to deflect attention from a serious problem by throwing the smokescreen of "single parents" and "personal responsibility" into the air.

 

[TownieDeac]

there is no thread in the tunnels that he can't bring 2 parent households into

i've seen it in threads about campaign finance, the iraq war, police brutality, free speech, the general election, north carolina politics, and more

if you need any indication that he's either trolling or out of ideas, you need only follow the posts where he mentions a second parent

milhouse is generous enough to suggest he's trolling

i'm cruel enough to suggest he's sincere

 

[jhmd2000]

Given the volume of posts, I would say those nuggets are far less than 1%.

This post is a real work of art:



Just a trolling work of art.

To address the substance of this thread:
Colin K. can do whatever he wants, and other people are free to think he's an idiot. Personally, I think sitting for the national anthem as an act of protest against police violence is fairly pointless. Worse, it has not brought any additional positive attention to the issue, only negative attention. Wearing pig socks is a rude and unproductive attack on all police officers as opposed to targeting the policies and structures that fail to hold bad cops responsible.

To address the red herrings: Police reform advocates are asking police departments and unions around the country to reform their internal policies to be more transparent and get rid of bad cops. They're asking for action at the state legislature level to drive those objectives, and to some extent federal action. How is it, exactly, that these initiatives are preventing anyone, anywhere, from addressing the "big problems" of poverty, single parenthood, etc. etc. ? Are the police unions doing a ton of work to prevent single parenthood and now BLM is distracting them from teaching abstinence classes? Is the Congress, which has accomplished essentially nothing in 6 years, so busy that spending some time on police violence will drastically cripple its heroic efforts to fix black high school graduation rates? Is the North Carolina legislature, which found the time to pass laws making police body-cams as un-transparent as possible while also busily defunding public schools and passing HB2 in record time, unable to now turn some attention to holding bad police officers accountable?

The argument is specious at best. Actually, it's worse than specious, it's an intentional attempt to deflect attention from a serious problem by throwing the smokescreen of "single parents" and "personal responsibility" into the air.

Which are apparently not "serious problems." Except for the data that proves them indisputably so, by every meaningful measure. Unless they (as 923 attempts to do here) are denying that single parent rates and a responsibility void are serious problems, left-leaning posters furiously concede that they are in fact so serious as to be universally understood to be so (as W&B did, five minutes ago). Try to keep up, if you can.

Thou shalt not speak of them in this safe space, apparently. Nope. It's raciosm or GTFO. That's the universe of acceptable explanations for life's problems, Tunnels fans. To have higher expectations of people, you'd have to actually respect them. And this is the Tunnels, after all. You're not allowed to disagree with the opinions of an NFL quarterback, because apparently there's nothing he hates more than racism.

 

[Deacon923]

Which are apparently not "serious problems." Except for the data that proves them indisputably so, by every meaningful measure. Unless they (as 923 attempts to do here) are denying that single parent rates and a responsibility void are serious problems, left-leaning posters furiously concede that they are in fact so serious as to be universally understood to be so (as W&B did, five minutes ago). Try to keep up, if you can.

Thou shalt not speak of them in this safe space, apparently. Nope. It's raciosm or GTFO. Those are your choices, Tunnels fans. To have higher expectations of people, you'd have to actually respect them. And this is the Tunnels, after all.

Boy the straw men are thick in here today.

Single parent rates and personal responsibility are serious problems, and avoiding parenthood before marriage and graduating from high school are critical elements to any remote chance at success in life.

Tell me again, how is it that the police departments, police unions, state legislatures, and Congress so very busy working on these serious issues that they can spare no time at all to address excessive police violence?

 

[DeaconSig]

We can't solve the problems of single parent households and personal responsibility until we get the debt and deficit under control. I mean, single parent households and personal responsibility are problems, but they aren't THE problem. DeacMan himself (RIP?) had it right we he said "it remains about the debt."

20T owed that we can't pay and we want to talk about personal responsibility? Pay our bills and it will be significantly easier for all people, black, white, or ginger, to live in peace, harmony, and completed nuclear families.

 

[ThinkingWithMyDeac]

Yet refuses to address how the best practice to prevent single household parents is abortion. More abortion less single parents simple formula as a real world we live in solution.

 

[PhDeac]

If there were only a place that helped people plan parenthood and avoid it before graduating from high school.

 

[WakeandBake]

That isn't what I said. At all. You keep claiming App State, but I'm beginning to think you went to the #Charlotte School of Law.

I'm saying that we have a racism problem in America, and we have a police brutality/profiling problem in America, and neither of those problems are "earned/warranted/deserved" [so you can kindly stop attributing that nonsense whenever you're ready], but the scale of those problems isn't what is holding a majority of people back. They are disconnected from the problems that are widespread, but most importantly they are also dwarfed by those problems. Lap 3,478 on the small scale problems eventually stops making you a hero, when that dialogue displaces/obfuscates the bigger issues.

If you're looking to actually make things better, let's focus on the epidemic problems. If you're looking to be a hero SJW, by all means, fap away on Lap 3,479. I'm calling the latter behavior out, but suit yourself.

But I am talking about that problem, not the socioeconomic one. I agreed with the tweeter about protest. No one was talking about helping blacks out of poverty, the discussion was racist cops.

You want to conflate the two problems (and knowell) because you WANT them to be associated. You WANT black people to be (at least somewhat) responsible for being mistreated because you abhor liberal entitlements for the poor. You have convinced yourself (with help no doubt from conservative dogma-spouting demagogues) that this is a noble cause, that pulling away entitlements is a grand show of dignity and caring for hungry and sick people on desolation row. This must be believed, or your entire position is exposed as nothing more than a self-serving tax-reduction measure. There is no historical proof-of-concept to point to, because historically the poor were fucked a lot worse.

 

[jhmd2000]

But I am talking about that problem, not the socioeconomic one. I agreed with the tweeter about protest. No one was talking about helping blacks out of poverty, the discussion was racist cops.

You want to conflate the two problems (and knowell) because you WANT them to be associated. You WANT black people to be (at least somewhat) responsible for being mistreated because you abhor liberal entitlements for the poor. You have convinced yourself (with help no doubt from conservative dogma-spouting demagogues) that this is a noble cause, that pulling away entitlements is a grand show of dignity and caring for hungry and sick people on desolation row. This must be believed, or your entire position is exposed as nothing more than a self-serving tax-reduction measure. There is no historical proof-of-concept to point to, because historically the poor were fucked a lot worse.

Why would we ever wish to discuss such a thing? Let's just yell at the cops instead. It's probably all their fault anyway. Thanks for nothing, cops.

 

[WakeandBake]

We can't solve the problems of single parent households and personal responsibility until we get the debt and deficit under control. I mean, single parent households and personal responsibility are problems, but they aren't THE problem. DeacMan himself (RIP?) had it right we he said "it remains about the debt."

20T owed that we can't pay and we want to talk about personal responsibility? Pay our bills and it will be significantly easier for all people, black, white, or ginger, to live in peace, harmony, and completed nuclear families.

this has got to be parody but it reads as serious

 

[WakeandBake]

Why would we ever wish to discuss such a thing? Let's just yell at the cops instead. It's probably all their fault anyway. Thanks for nothing, cops.

Fine, lets discuss it. But don't shout down the discussion about racist cops with it. It smacks of blaming blacks for racism. Come on, now. I have discussed it with you around these parts for a decade at least

 

[jhmd2000]

there is no thread in the tunnels that he can't bring 2 parent households into

i've seen it in threads about campaign finance, the iraq war, police brutality, free speech, the general election, north carolina politics, and more

if you need any indication that he's either trolling or out of ideas, you need only follow the posts where he mentions a second parent

milhouse is generous enough to suggest he's trolling

i'm cruel enough to suggest he's sincere

Find: "2 parent households"

Replace: "systemic racism"

 

[DeaconSig]

this has got to be parody but it reads as serious

MAKES YOU WONDER!?

 

[WakeandBake]

I swanny!

 

[Deacon923]

Why would we ever wish to discuss such a thing? Let's just yell at the cops instead. It's probably all their fault anyway. Thanks for nothing, cops.

Ah. A backwards admission that cops have little or nothing to do with high school graduation, single parenthood, etc. I wonder, what sorts of issues DO cops have direct control over? Could it be, I don't know, their own personal conduct? Their tactics? Their transparency to the neighborhood? Their choice of weaponry? No, perish the thought that we should ask the police to take responsibility for their behavior. Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations...