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SCOTUS decisions

PhDeac said:
Pretty sure the framers weren’t originally thinking about Muslims when they said “freedom of religion.”
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This is probably true. They would have likely called them Mohammedans anyway.
 
Imam watched from adjacent room. The Chaplain is an employee and thus authorized to be in the actual chamber.
 
Would really love our resident textualist to tell us why this decision makes sense
 
Lectro said:
Imam watched from adjacent room. The Chaplain is an employee and thus authorized to be in the actual chamber.
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I understand the details of the case. However, why have a chaplain available in the room at all if you can’t accommodate religious diversity? I would especially think that this request isn’t unreasonable given the percentage of Muslims in the prison system. Many of whom convert to Islam while incarcerated. The state seems to believe that religious representation is worthwhile given the presence of a chaplain.
 
Non story hype-notizing the knee-jerks..

Prison agreed with Ray’s lawyers and so the Chaplain was not present.

Only Prison employees are in the execution chamber. The Imam was able to be present in the witness area behind the glass and of course to be with Ray in the time preceeding the actual entrance to the chamber.

All kind of Nothingberd here.
 
I wonder who was allowed to be present for the 15 year old girl as Dominique Ray raped and choked and eventually murdered her?

He was allowed to practice his faith and receive guidance of an Imam. The Imam was present behind the glass.

Now then..let’s say the inmate is Protestant with a severe dislike of Catholicism and the prison-religio is a Roman Catholic?

The prisoner says “no way,he/she is in the room with me. I want my Pastor!”

Ok. The Roman Catholic is not needed or wanted (no Sister Prejean) and so one’s own spiritual adviser is allowed to provide counseling and console up to the point where the application of the law is administered.

* the Imam in this case spent much of Wednesday and Thursday with Domonique Ray and was with him all the way up to the time of execution..but like Sister Helen Prejean,he was not an employee of the prison and so he and Ray separated at the gallows door,as it were.
 
Lectro said:
I wonder who was allowed to be present for the 15 year old girl as Dominique Ray raped and choked and eventually murdered her?

He was allowed to practice his faith and receive guidance of an Imam. The Imam was present behind the glass.

Now then..let’s say the inmate is Protestant with a severe dislike of Catholicism and the prison-religio is a Roman Catholic?

The prisoner says “no way,he/she is in the room with me. I want my Pastor!”

Ok. The Roman Catholic is not needed or wanted (no Sister Prejean) and so one’s own spiritual adviser is allowed to provide counseling and console up to the point where the application of the law is administered.

* the Imam in this case spent much of Wednesday and Thursday with Domonique Ray and was with him all the way up to the time of execution..but like Sister Helen Prejean,he was not an employee of the prison and so he and Ray separated at the gallows door,as it were.
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Right, I read the articles. I know what happened. My question is “why have a sectarian employee at all?” Either ecumenism or nothing seems, to me at least, more in line with the First Amendment. I’m curious to hear from thoughtful conservatives on this.
 
Good luck finding a conservative willing to advocate for rights of people from all religions.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Right, I read the articles. I know what happened. My question is “why have a sectarian employee at all?” Either ecumenism or nothing seems, to me at least, more in line with the First Amendment. I’m curious to hear from thoughtful conservatives on this.
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My belief - and i’m not hyped about the state administering death- is that folks on Death Row want some type of consoling agent to be with them through what must a nervous hell - regardless whether one believes it’s what is deserved or not. We agree on that? Therefore, I am imagining this population of “Chaplains” are likely to be a hearty but small group who have to attend to some often very rough and perhaps not so spiritually inclined human clients,as it were. Realistically,these people make little money and likely are in Orders which specify attending the needs of the least among us.

My father was a prison psychologist upon his return from Korea. He did one on one’s with death row inmates as part of psych profile-evaluation-motivations,etc.He did it for 2.5 years. I asked him much later about it and he said “son,after awhile the doors start slamming behind you”

It takes a tough lot to work in and around prisons and the pay ain’t great,eh.

So sometimes you take willing people from wherever you can find in the community and are happy to have them. Most often these people come from our religious communities.
 
Apologies for lousy grammar. Detracts from point. Not many ‘sane’ people want to be around a prison or an execution chamber for too long. A special group - maybe a “calling”.
 
But here is an Imam who is willing to be there, so that argument doesn’t really hold up. Seems like these aren’t incidents that come up too often, so surely there are religious leaders of other traditions willing to do the work. My hunch is those folks understand the messiness of their vocation same as a priest or pastor.
 
Lectro said:
My belief - and i’m not hyped about the state administering death- is that folks on Death Row want some type of consoling agent to be with them through what must a nervous hell - regardless whether one believes it’s what is deserved or not. We agree on that? Therefore, I am imagining this population of “Chaplains” are likely to be a hearty but small group who have to attend to some often very rough and perhaps not so spiritually inclined human clients,as it were. Realistically,these people make little money and likely are in Orders which specify attending the needs of the least among us.

My father was a prison psychologist upon his return from Korea. He did one on one’s with death row inmates as part of psych profile-evaluation-motivations,etc.He did it for 2.5 years. I asked him much later about it and he said “son,after awhile the doors start slamming behind you”

It takes a tough lot to work in and around prisons and the pay ain’t great,eh.

So sometimes you take willing people from wherever you can find in the community and are happy to have them. Most often these people come from our religious communities.
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:golfclap
 
Deacfreak07 said:
But here is an Imam who is willing to be there, so that argument doesn’t really hold up. Seems like these aren’t incidents that come up too often, so surely there are religious leaders of other traditions willing to do the work. My hunch is those folks understand the messiness of their vocation same as a priest or pastor.
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Well then I suppose the Imam can apply to be a Prison Chaplain.
 
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