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Slaughter in vegas

The idea that AR-15 or AK-47 family weapons are "the same as a hunting rifle, they just look different" is laughable.

Because they were developed from military rifles, AR-15 and AK-47 family weapons are designed to accept a wide range of tactical accessories designed for combat situations. These include high capacity magazines, combat slings, bipods/tripods, bump stocks, etc, etc. Yes, you could in theory manufacture your own for another semi-automatic rifle, but that's a far cry from the huge volume of easily purchasable military grade hardware available with 3 clicks on the internet or in a shop.

Because they were developed from military rifles the AR/AK family are designed to be weapons that can be fired rapidly and in large volume over an extended time. They are very light (especially the AR family), have little recoil, are easy to maneuver, and can be fired for extended stretches which would be nearly impossible with a standard hunting rifle. In particular, the receivers and barrels are designed for a volume of fire that a standard semi-auto rifle for hunting or sports purposes never has to support.

Both the AR and AK families are traditionally chambered for rounds that have little purpose outside of combat. The NATO 5.56x45mm used by the AR family and the 7.62x39mm used by the AK family are both designed for combat situations and ranges against human targets. They are relatively under performing as hunting rounds and aren't optimized for sports either. The 5.56x45mm in particular lacks punch against anything larger than a human, and is a round that was designed to be as small as possible while still being lethal to humans (so soldiers could carry as much ammunition as possible and to limit recoil allowing for more extended periods of accurate fire).

The AR/AK family rifles are combat rifles. They are very, very, very good combat rifles proven on the field of battle over and over. They are optimized for the task of killing human beings, and very little else. The idea that they are the equivalent of a .30-.30 chambered deer rifle is fucking laughable and insulting.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
Still hoping jh chimes in on which policy points the Pubs have scored in the last ten years or so that has benefitted society. Feel free to answer about republicans only, not democrat failures.
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Interesting question. Pubs generally look to solutions outside of government to solve problems. For example, nc ga has continued to reduce size and scope of government in NC, which has reduced the tax burden on working families. Even netting out HB2 garbage, nc still has impressive job growth compared to other states. Is that a "policy solution"? I think so. But pubs view government's role differently. The glutton will always eat more meat than the vegan, doesn't mean he's doing the right thing.
Your question ignores cost, does it not? When pubs reduce scope and cost of government, savings accrue to the citizens. Having watched government fail habitually, this is a wise choice in policy, sans fanfare.
Preventing dem failures (not named by special request) is part of the plan.
 
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So which article did you lift that from? And don’t tell me you knew. We both know that’s not true.
 
DG3 said:
Your Honor, may I present Exhibit A.

Welcome to the discussion, DF07. I’m certain your rational thoughts here will help move the needle.
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Show me where the NRA has ever expressed interest in solutions to our gun problem. They won't event admit we have a problem. They aren't interested in debate.
 
DG3 said:
So which article did you lift that from? And don’t tell me you knew. We both know that’s not true.
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Talking about me?

I grew up in unincorporated Cumberland County and my entire family are military vets for 3 generations (Russian and then USA). My wife served as well. I've been shooting since I was probably 5 years old - everything from WW1 era 7.92mm Mauser through to modern AR's. I'd guess my family home never had less than 5 guns in it, of various makes and eras.

Did a bunch of bow hunting as well growing up ^^
 
That’s awesome. Apologies for being a smartass. But we do disagree on a good portion of what you posted. I’ll have to address it later though as I don’t have time for a drawn out post at the moment.
 
So if we are doing education can someone give a practical reason for the existence of ARs, semi automatic weapons , and high capacity weapons besides they are fun?
 
DG3 said:
In a vacuum, these all sound ridiculous and I agree with you. Obviously they all have their own intricacies, but for the sake of the current situation and for this thread, I’ll address your last point. Some of them are the caricature that some here think pretty much all gun enthusiasts are. They are assholes. Others think it’s the big government slippery slope. Some aren’t well enough educated on gun violence. We could go on all night. Still, I think one needs to be educated on a topic before he/she tells others how to live in regards to it.

What I think that we can agree on is that changes need to be made. Serious ones. Admittedly, I don’t know what that looks like or how it will happen, but for it to happen there has to be compromise. For there to be compromise, we have have to be educated on the subject matter as to not invalidate our own arguments. You can’t reach any sort of progress with the “BAN THE MILITARY AUTOMATED ASSAULT WEAPONS!” or the “FUCK YOU COMMIELIB! COME TRY TO TAKE MY GUNS AND I’LL BLOW YOUR HEAD OFF! IT’S MY SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT!” type arguments.
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DG3 said:
What do you think I’m trying to do? I’m ready to lay down my weapons and make something work. The lack of education and even lack of wanting to be educated in favor of buzz words, insults, and figurative point scoring isn’t working. The reality is that those entrenched on either side won’t be happy with the changes that will be made, but they will surely beat what we’ve got now and there are 59 families out there tonight that wish they could have come sooner.
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elkman92 said:
The problem is the knowledgeable gun enthusiasts are never invited to the debate, we are just told that we are knuckledraggers who should shut the fuck up and do as we are told by people who probably do not know which end of a firearm to hold...
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That's just it though. For change to happen, knowledgeable conservatives have to be the ones LEADING the debate, not hoping for an invite. If you really believe that there are meaningful steps that we could take to reduce gun violence, you need to step the fuck up and make it happen. When you don't handle your own shit, that's when you get the know-nothing outsiders trying to take away your autonomy and control. But because guns have been enshrined as a fundamental right in this country, instead of a privilege as I believe they should be (recognizing fully this is not a realistic battle to fight now), and the political power of the NRA, etc., that pathway doesn't work, and both sides have dug in.

JH is wrong, it doesn't matter how good a democrat's argument is for some form of gun control, or how well informed they are about guns; if it is coming from the left, it will never happen in the current political climate. But if someone on the right steps up (which unfortunately would be political suicide in a world where Roy Fucking Moore can win a primary), he will get all the help he needs from across the isle, and there's at least some chance enough people will listen.
 
vadimivich said:
Talking about me?

I grew up in unincorporated Cumberland County and my entire family are military vets for 3 generations (Russian and then USA). My wife served as well. I've been shooting since I was probably 5 years old - everything from WW1 era 7.92mm Mauser through to modern AR's. I'd guess my family home never had less than 5 guns in it, of various makes and eras.

Did a bunch of bow hunting as well growing up ^^
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I grew up shooting all kinds of guns with my veteran dad too. But I'm not qualified to come up with solutions to gun problems, apparently. I'll defer to the experts I reckon.
 
So? Would we be better off if he did have a gun?
 
When the NRA won't even permit a searchable gun database, I really have a hard time giving them the benefit of the doubt as a worthwhile voice to this debate. They aren't interested in debate. They refuse to give an inch, but when a majority of your industry is funded by overcompensation from micropenises, I suppose an inch is an extreme distance.
 
MichDeac25 said:
Fine. I can live with people sticking their finger through their belt loop instead of a damn fully engineered solution to make an automatic weapon. Jesus. This is common sense. There's no reason we can't attempt to make America a little safer. Even incremental improvement is still improvement.
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I guess you didn't read the first sentence of my post
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Show me where the NRA has ever expressed interest in solutions to our gun problem. They won't event admit we have a problem. They aren't interested in debate.
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That's actually probably a decent way to go about actual change, if the Dem's excuse is true that the NRA is the reason nothing gets done ... start a grassroots movement to have the NRA labeled as a terrorist organization. Let those Anonymous dudes hijack their website, present them as unpatriotic, etc. Paint them the same as Isis, the KKK, and (to really piss them off and fuck with them) BLM. Go on the offensive against them outside of legislation itself and force them to react.
 
riscdeac said:
Captain St Francis of Assisi,

I asked you a direct question more than once and you never answered. So I will answer it.

A vote for a republican means that person has blood on their hands. Those deplorables are responsible for mass murders. All mass murders including Las Vegas. The pulse night club? That wasn't about gun control and you know it.

Sandy hook the kid stole his mother's gun. Did she have 50 semi automatics in her home? ONE GUN and he killed all those little children!!!!!

Just because someone doesn't have YOUR feelings in mind when they vote doesn't mean they are responsible for this.[SUP]1[/SUP]

I know automatic rifles are illegal. I have no idea why people would need a semi automatic rifle. I have no idea why people can legally own 20 guns.

I don't live in the south or the Midwest and DONT worry about it. It's not a priority in my state.[SUP]2[/SUP]

I'm scratching my head as to why someone can buy a kit that can convert a semi auto to an auto if an auto is illegal. I'm scratching my head why someone can own all that ammunition and 25-30 weapons besides the military or authorities.[SUP]3[/SUP]

This terror attack highlights all of this for me
AND more. The more that nobody seems to think about other than pointing fingers.[SUP]4[/SUP]

I said wait and don't make it political way back out of respect. One freakin day.[SUP]5[/SUP]

Maybe this one is more political than you want it to be. Maybe
Not.

And I'm in the bubble? smarties haven't lived long enough
But they know everything. Adios geniuses[SUP]6[/SUP]
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1. If you vote for members of Congress who support the sale of weapon accessories such as the stock used to simulate automatic fire and and fight against common sense gun control laws, you are at least partially responsible. Feelings don't matter, action towards prevention and control of military-grade weaponry being put into private citizens' hands does.

2. At least you're honest about not caring about other people.

3. I can answer this one for you so you don't have to scratch your head: because people (such as yourself) have voted in politicians that make it very easy to do so under some convoluted and warped understanding of the Second Amendment.

4. No one is pointing fingers. One side of the aisle is begging for common sense gun control legislation such as "No Fly, No Gun", no guns for domestic abusers, a gun owner database to track criminal histories and background checks for weapon purchases. The other is offering their thoughts and prayers.

5. On this point, I agree with you, and said as much on the first page of this thread. But now we have to take action so that Las Vegas remains the worst gun massacre in American history and we don't have a new worst in a month.

6. Adios.
 
It's just unfathomable to me that people could advocate doing nothing when they KNOW we will have another massacre within a year or two.
 
riscdeac said:
Captain St Francis of Assisi,

I asked you a direct question more than once and you never answered. So I will answer it.

A vote for a republican means that person has blood on their hands. Those deplorables are responsible for mass murders. All mass murders including Las Vegas. The pulse night club? That wasn't about gun control and you know it.

Sandy hook the kid stole his mother's gun. Did she have 50 semi automatics in her home? ONE GUN and he killed all those little children!!!!!

Just because someone doesn't have YOUR feelings in mind when they vote doesn't mean they are responsible for this.

I know automatic rifles are illegal. I have no idea why people would need a semi automatic rifle. I have no idea why people can legally own 20 guns.

I don't live in the south or the Midwest and DONT worry about it. It's not a priority in my state.

I'm scratching my head as to why someone can buy a kit that can convert a semi auto to an auto if an auto is illegal. I'm scratching my head why someone can own all that ammunition and 25-30 weapons besides the military or authorities.

This terror attack highlights all of this for me
AND more. The more that nobody seems to think about other than pointing fingers.

I said wait and don't make it political way back out of respect. One freakin day.

Maybe this one is more political than you want it to be. Maybe
Not.

And I'm in the bubble? smarties haven't lived long enough
But they know everything. Adios geniuses
Click to expand...

I recently visited Old Francis, as it were. Pretty dope crypt, have to admit.

If you supported and continue to support the scoundrels who let the NRA continue to put American lives in danger, you'recomplicit in these tragedies.
 
I mean there are kids in middle school who have heard the phrase "worst mass shooting in American history" used to describe 3 different events in their lifetime! How can you not admit we have a huge gun problem. If we don't have a huge gun problem, then the NRA should be pushing every bit of mental health legislation it can, because something is seriously very fucked up.
 
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