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slow pitch softball game...what's the correct call?

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[Dr.Acula]

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I was watching a co-ed slow pitch softball game tonight, and the visiting team was up 11-10 two outs in the bottom of the last inning with a girl runner on second. The guy batter hit a ground ball deep in the hole at shortstop, and the shortstop tossed his glove towards the ball. The glove did not make contact with the ball, but the other team appealed the play stating all runners should be awarded 2 bases because tossing the glove was illegal. The umpire agreed (without consulting a rule book) and the visiting team lost as a result. The batter had already rounded first and committed to second at the time the glove was thrown, so he was awarded second plus 2 bases. Had the umpire not ruled it that way, the girl runner would have only advanced to third, and the guy would have gotten a double with a girl batter up (and most likely the last out of the game).

The umpire said they followed "high school softball rules." I'm assuming he meant ASA rules, but I honestly don't think he knew which rule book they were supposed to use. I could only find a 2005 version of the ASA rule book online. Section 5.F states that "when a fielder intentionally contacts or catches a fair batted, a thrown, or a pitched ball with his cap, helmet, mask, protector, pocket, detached glove, or any part of the uniform which is detached from its proper place on their person the batter and runners would be entitled to 3 bases from the time of the pitch if a batted ball..." The 2012 USSSA rule book states the same thing (Section 6.H).

Obviously, tossing the glove towards the ball was a dumb move, but should the umpire have ruled in favor of the home team if the glove did not make contact with the ball? Based on what I read, it seems the umpire had no clue what the rule was to begin with. Even if the glove had made contact with the ball, the batter should have only advanced to third (3 bases from the time of the pitch if a batted ball), leaving the game tied and likely heading into extras.
 
I don't know softball rules but baseball rules include a provision of it's only a penalty if the ball is actually struck by a thrown object (or if you use your hat/jersey/etc in an unusual manner to make a catch). I'd imagine the rule is the same for softball. Another thing you'd need to consider is if the thrown object interferes (physically or mentally) with the batter or baserunners, as that could be interference/obstruction. I don't think it was the right call at first glance. I base this off my cursory glance at the rules and remembering when I used to ump softball games when I was in high school.
 
I'd be surprised if the ASA or any other official rule book has a rule the specifically states throwing a glove or hat *without* hitting the ball (either batted or thrown) is a two base infraction. However, a lot of co-ed and rec leagues have a bunch of added rules to make up for there being only one umpire. I think ours has a clause for "attempting" to deceive or break a rule. For instance, if the first baseman acts like he dropped the throw to draw the baserunner off the bag and then tags him, he's ejected and the baserunner gets third. Basically any attempt to break the rules counts as breaking the rules.

I'm just impressed that the guy hit a liner in the hole and somehow had already rounded first by the time the shortstop was trying to field the ball. Must be fast as shit.
 
IslandDeac said:
I don't know softball rules but baseball rules include a provision of it's only a penalty if the ball is actually struck by a thrown object (or if you use your hat/jersey/etc in an unusual manner to make a catch). I'd imagine the rule is the same for softball. Another thing you'd need to consider is if the thrown object interferes (physically or mentally) with the batter or baserunners, as that could be interference/obstruction. I don't think it was the right call at first glance. I base this off my cursory glance at the rules and remembering when I used to ump softball games when I was in high school.
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What is the rule/penalty in baseball? The reason I ask, if it is an automatic 2 or 3 bases, you'd see outflielders tossing their gloves all the time at balls that are clearly going over the fence for a homerun.
 
DownEastDeac said:
What is the rule/penalty in baseball? The reason I ask, if it is an automatic 2 or 3 bases, you'd see outflielders tossing their gloves all the time at balls that are clearly going over the fence for a homerun.
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If they throw and hit a ball that has a chance to be a homerun (umps will give benefit of doubt to the hitter), it is a homerun. Then it's 3 bases for some things, two for others but I forget exactly what it is for.
 
If an umpire thinks a player intentionally threw a glove and it hits a batted ball, it's three bases for the batter and all runners. Period. Unless the ump determines that the thrown glove prevented the ball from going out of the park, in which case the ump can award the batter an HR.

That's the baseball rule. I would assume the same rule applies in softball, but I don't know for sure.
 
Slow pitch coed softball? The right call is always beer.
 
DCDeac said:
I'd be surprised if the ASA or any other official rule book has a rule the specifically states throwing a glove or hat *without* hitting the ball (either batted or thrown) is a two base infraction. However, a lot of co-ed and rec leagues have a bunch of added rules to make up for there being only one umpire. I think ours has a clause for "attempting" to deceive or break a rule. For instance, if the first baseman acts like he dropped the throw to draw the baserunner off the bag and then tags him, he's ejected and the baserunner gets third. Basically any attempt to break the rules counts as breaking the rules.

I'm just impressed that the guy hit a liner in the hole and somehow had already rounded first by the time the shortstop was trying to field the ball. Must be fast as shit.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no way that's possible.
 
It is rare, but this does happen. One of my teammates in a high school game hit a dribbler toward third and their third baseman came in and tossed his glove off, apparently to try to scoop the ball barehanded with two hands. His glove hit the ball, but he still was able to pick it up and throw the batter out.

I remember there was a huge argument with both coaches on the field. The ump eventually correctly awarded the hitter three bases.
 
I don't know the correct ruling (TJ would be ashamed). If I was the ump, I'd say no extra bases. If the glove made contact with the ball, then it would've been 3 bases. No contact = no extra bases (just a stupid fielder who is lucky he didn't give the runners 3 bases). Throwing a bat is an instant out...saw that one a lot...never saw throwing a glove.
 
The correct call is to PM the mods 200 times until the ruling goes your way.
 
Dr.Acula, per ASA (Amateur Softball Association) Rules, the runners should NOT have advanced in your scenario. The rule is contingent upon the glove making contact with the ball, which would have resulted in 3 bases.

Play A batted ball is out of reach of F8 who throws their glove at the ball while in the air and their glove contacts the ball and deflects the ball which F9 dives and catches.

Ruling: When a fielder intentionally contacts or catches a fair batted, a thrown, or a pitched ball with any part of the uniform or equipment detached from its proper place. Effect: Delayed dead ball and the batter and runners are entitled to three bases from the time of pitch on a batted ball. It is a delayed dead ball because runners can get more than three bases if possible. Once the ball is now caught the ball becomes dead and you must award the three bases to each runner and batter-runner from the last base touched at the time of the pitch.
 
First the disclaimer ... the following is the baseball rule ... I think (but do not know for sure) that it is the same for softball.

If a fair batted ball (or one that might become fair) is touched by detached player equipment which is thrown, tossed, kicked or held by a fielder, there is a three-base awarded determined by the time of the infraction (not the pitch). If the ball has a chance to go over the fence, it is a four-base award.

In your example, the ball would have to be touched by the thrown glove for there to be a call. To award the batter home, he must have touched first before the glove was thrown and subsequently contacted the batted ball. I do not believe the IM ump got the call correct. BTW, if the same thing happens with a thrown ball, it is a two-base award.
 
I hate umps who please the teams that whine the most. Ump clearly didn't have the confidence to refute the whining team's claims so he just went with the flow. As a former ump I got some sort of sick pleasure refuting the whining teams. The best was when a coach/team complained about three seconds in basketball...and then a few plays later I called three seconds on the whining team. Thanks for the heads up! :thumbsup:
 
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