Show me the examples of trans people in NC being denied the right to use the bathroom consistent with their gender identity. I know there have been issues in some schools (not sure if that has come up in NC) but anywhere else?
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Show me the examples of trans people in NC being denied the right to use the bathroom consistent with their gender identity. I know there have been issues in some schools (not sure if that has come up in NC) but anywhere else?
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
This isn't intended to be a gotcha question, but do there need to be problems to affirmatively grant rights to a group? Obviously it's valid to say that there may been more pressing issues if there weren't any reported underlying concerns but I have a little trouble with the "the NCGA was just pushing back against an activist Charlotte group" to prohibit a group from exercising the very rights that the city attempted to address.
"It wasn't a problem before until you passed an ordinance preventing it so now we're expressly banning what was previously de facto okay"
Doesn't seem to logically flow
"It wasn't a problem before until you passed an ordinance preventing it so now we're expressly banning what was previously de facto okay"
Doesn't seem to logically flow
So, because someone made a law you don't like, another law whose purpose is to discriminate against innocent people was needed.
Strickland33
Well-known member
Do you believe HB2 deters this type of illegal activity? Are there typically strange adults lurking around schools, let alone around school bathrooms and locker rooms?
Granting rights to a group of people is great and all. But the other side, including a lot of folks here, simplify the issue way too much and refuse to acknowledge that granting such a right may impact the rights of others in less than ideal ways. Explain to me the legal recourse when a male, dressed as a female, enters a female changing facility and changes clothes and observes females changing clothes - how do you know whether that male is 'really' trans? How does it work?
And I know you all say it hasn't happened and it won't happen, etc. But I say any trans could have entered any bathroom in NC without issue before this all happened. So tit for tat. Why are we here?
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
Men dressing up as women to go into female bathrooms aren't going to have any other evidence of being a female on a regular basis.
Trans people will.
Trans people will.
Strickland33
Well-known member
Do you believe that a law like HB2 deters the types of illegal activity that worries you so much? (Stated differently: do you believe laws like HB2 actually have the potential to deter sexual predators?) How does it do so? Based on the answer of that question, do you believe that it's right to deny a class of people civil rights on those grounds?
You are correct. But how do you know which is which, in the moment?
ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
you don't know which gun-carrying kid is going to shoot up the lecture hall but Texans decided it's worth protecting the 2nd Amendment to find out
With such a law on the books you have legal standing to have a man removed from a women's facility, whether they are dressed as a woman or not. (and don't put words in my mouth - I never said such activity "worries me so much" - it is far, far down the list of things that worry me) Without such a law, predators and deviants might be emboldened to enter when before they would not have.
As for your second question, you first have to decide whether it is actually a civil right as a man, for instance, who believes he is actually a woman to be able to use facilities heretofore reserved for women. I think it is a civil right to be free from employment or housing discrimination due to gender identity, for instance - but using a bathroom or changing facility? I am not sure.
You are correct.
avalon
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So what happens when the man says he is a trans man required to use the women's restroom by law? Why won't predators and deviants be emboldened to enter knowing that some trans men are now legally required to use the women's restroom?
wakephan09
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Have you ever seen a trans woman? They try really, really hard to look like women. They are clearly not just men in drag.
Scooter,what do you think will happen to a pre-op trans woman who is forced to go into a men's bathroom in a bar in NC? You don't think there's a good chance she's going to be assaulted?
HB2 (besides its awful employee edicts) puts more people in jeopardy than anyone was prior to the law being passed and signed.
HB2 (besides its awful employee edicts) puts more people in jeopardy than anyone was prior to the law being passed and signed.
PhDeac
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This. Obviously with some you can tell, but it's a sincere effort.
I know people think this will lead to some type of Porky's/Bosom Buddies shenanigans and that's ridiculous.
To my great surprise, no one seems to want to talk about the OP. Anyone actually read the article? In particular, her point about her community's modest yield Democrats' perpetual promises? The enduring failure of the civic leadership of her city (that sounds so very, very familiar...). Thoughts?
I recognize that situation is problematic - that is what I was alluding to when I earlier said "I lean toward believing your bathroom usage should align with your physical equipment - but I see the difficulty that can cause for some people." It seems like the percentage of people that need laws to protect them from situations like that (what, less than 1%?) would be similar to (or lower than) the percentage of people that are pervs and would take advantage of the law to perv out? So what do you do?
You actually think that there are that many people who would go through all the trouble to inevitably get caught doing as you ask?
I doubt 1% of the "pervs" who dress as women to go into women's bathrooms dressed as a woman could get away in those clothes. Even when we were young, skinny and quick, I doubt many guys could escape in a dress, much less in heels.
you are grasping at very long straws.