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The Curious Case of Trayvon Martin

Only tangentially related to this topic... But, for some perspective... There are a few teenagers that live in my neighborhood - I know they live here but I do not know them personally. Racially, some are white, some are asian. I see them walking around our neighborhood at times. Sometimes other teenagers are with them - whom I do not believe live in my neighborhood.
A couple of them are rumored to be involved with a group of kids in another neighborhood that is 'bad news'. All very vague and unsubstantiated - at least as far as I know.
When I see them walking around at night I automatically wonder what they are up to - especially if it is kind of late. When we had beer stolen from our garage refrigerator a few years ago I assumed it was likely them, or their friends.

If I saw them walking around really late at night, I would be doubly suspicious.

If I saw kids walking through my neighborhood very late at night, and I knew they did not live in my neighborhood, I would be triply suspicious.

Again, with respect to race, there are several black families that live in my neighborhood. As far as I know, only one of them has a teenage kid. As such, if I saw black teenage kids walking through my neighborhood late at night I would be extremely suspicious - not because they are black, but, because, being black, I would know that they did not live here (unless it was the one black teenager I know - I know him, he belongs in the neighborhood and is a good kid, as far as I know).

Is that profiling? I guess it is. Am I wrong to think this way? I don't know but I think it is pretty natural.
 
How late is late at night?
 
get+off+my+lawn.jpg
 
bill-belichick-hoodiejpg-ac20e210d0cb4eab.jpg


Clearly up to no good with that Hernandez kid.....SHOOT HIM!
 
scooter84 said:
Only tangentially related to this topic... But, for some perspective... There are a few teenagers that live in my neighborhood - I know they live here but I do not know them personally. Racially, some are white, some are asian. I see them walking around our neighborhood at times. Sometimes other teenagers are with them - whom I do not believe live in my neighborhood.
A couple of them are rumored to be involved with a group of kids in another neighborhood that is 'bad news'. All very vague and unsubstantiated - at least as far as I know.
When I see them walking around at night I automatically wonder what they are up to - especially if it is kind of late. When we had beer stolen from our garage refrigerator a few years ago I assumed it was likely them, or their friends.

If I saw them walking around really late at night, I would be doubly suspicious.

If I saw kids walking through my neighborhood very late at night, and I knew they did not live in my neighborhood, I would be triply suspicious.

Again, with respect to race, there are several black families that live in my neighborhood. As far as I know, only one of them has a teenage kid. As such, if I saw black teenage kids walking through my neighborhood late at night I would be extremely suspicious - not because they are black, but, because, being black, I would know that they did not live here (unless it was the one black teenager I know - I know him, he belongs in the neighborhood and is a good kid, as far as I know).

Is that profiling? I guess it is. Am I wrong to think this way? I don't know but I think it is pretty natural.
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wasn't trayvon killed at like 7:00 PM?
 
PhDeac said:
How late is late at night?
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Hard to say exactly... and I am just being honest here... If I was up after midnight and saw 2-3 kids walking around outside my house I would definitely wonder what they were up to. Context is everything, though... I live in a very residential area - there is nowhere to walk "to", really. Any stores that are open late are not close by, kids that age aren't going to bars or anything, etc. Most people that are old enough to be out that late around here have a license and a car... etc.

If they are just 'hanging out', I would expect them to be doing it at one of their houses - not in the street.

None of this is to say that I would go out there and accost them. Just that I would take note and wonder.

How they were acting matters to. If they looked like they were going somewhere with a purpose, I might not be as suspicious - maybe they have been hanging out at a friend's house and are just walking home. But, if they appear to be loitering, or wandering aimlessly, that would be more suspicious.
 
From a juror:

"I think all of us thought race did not play a role," the juror said . "We never had that discussion."

I find that a little surprising.
 
scooter84 said:
BTW, you never said whether you thought the verdict would be different if the races were reversed.
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I thought I was clear in saying the jury would be more sympathetic toward a white teen especially since the jury was initial split.

Yes. It would.
 
DeacHoops said:
wasn't trayvon killed at like 7:00 PM?
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There's a timeline on wiki (normal disclaimer about wiki accuracty applies), this is really depressing:

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.
7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.
7:17 — The first officer on the scene, Officer T. Smith arrives by squad car at Retreat View.
7:17:40+ — Officer Smith arrives at the crime scene.
Click to expand...
 
When I see someone walking outside at 7 p.m., I immediately think "teenager, who is likely up to no good, of an ambiguous race."
 
Deacfreak07 said:
If TM were packing, and the victims were reversed, would the verdict be different?
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I don't think so. That's self defense on either side of the coin, and even more compellingly so if each knew of the other's weapon.
 
PhDeac said:
I thought I was clear in saying the jury would be more sympathetic toward a white teen especially since the jury was initial split.

Yes. It would.
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Saying they would be more sympathetic is not the same as saying they would reverse their verdict.

As I said, I think it would have been the same. Maybe that is because I am white and am naively confident that the system usually works correctly. I would be very depressed if I thought that, given the exact same evidence, a verdict would turn out differently solely because of the race of the victim and the attacker.
 
scooter84 said:
BTW, you never said whether you thought the verdict would be different if the races were reversed.
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If George Zimmerman had gone by his Hispanic (maternal) name of Jorge Mesa instead, he possibly would have been charged sooner, but regardless I don't think this thread even exists.
 
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