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The New Socialists

myDeaconmyhand said:
NED, may I ask what rabbit hole lead you to that twitter account? Just a cursory glance at her account tells me shes a tankie troll. l've never even heard of Sameera Khan before, and I follow 2-3 other people on RT - I don't even have any mufos with her.
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No idea. You’ll have to ask Jack Dorsey about his algorithm and why it popped up on my feed.

Could have also been a retweet from someone I follow.
 
I would never support a person like Khan whose employer pays people to beat up gays, kills journalists, kills and jails opponents. But if you do that'll teach the evil Dems!

Many Dems agree with you on most of your points. Pubs oppose you on everything. Common sense says you would support Dems.

Any vote for a third or fourth party is de facto a vote for Republicans. If you mobilize people to vote for those other parties you are voting for Republicans. It's really that simple.

Politicians understand two things money and votes. If you grow your movement and get more and more nominees, you will get of what you want. Voting for Republicans or other parties means not only won't you get what you want, but you are rolling back where we are today.
 
RJ, such a babe in the woods. Santa Monica must have been very good to you for you to be that old and still naive as all hell.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
RJ, such a babe in the woods. Santa Monica must have been very good to you for you to be that old and still naive as all hell.
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No, it's you who are naive. The Republicans LOVE you voting third party or not voting. You are electing people who support keeping women quiet if they are abused. You are electing people who pass "religious freedom acts" to codify bigotry against gays. You are electing people who want to pass voter suppression laws. You are electing people who steal babies from their mothers.

BTW, I have never lived in Santa Monica, but you are living in dreamworld that is owned by Republicans.
 
Newenglanddeac said:
Except that my tactic is rooted in protecting the country from encroaching authoritarianism, corruption and foreign influence.

So are you really considering voting straight Republican to more quickly destroy the Democratic Party?
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I just told you that I would not do that and I don't know anyone that is. Your tactic is not available to me for the reason that I'm not going to support an explicit white supremacist party.
 
I'm not sure if you are trying to make a point or not.
 
MHBDemon said:
Is that any more or less incongruous than a conservative voting straight D?
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It is, because your voting for Jill Stein, or any off party, is EXACTLY what the Republicans want you to do. They will drive you to the polls and buy you beers for doing that. Each person who does this give the GOP votes.

I know you don't want to deal the reality of it, but every person in your party who votes for a Republican or Jill Stein or any off party is voting against raising the minimum wage. Is voting against Medicare for All. Is voting against marriage and gender equality. Is voting against restoring the votes for felons. Is voting against prison reform.

You can act high and mighty and try to rationalize that your aren't voting for the Republicans and their agenda, but you are.
 
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MHBDemon said:
I'm not sure if you are trying to make a point or not.
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my point is that no, it's not the same if a left leaning person votes Green rather than R because of the difference in the ideological overlaps between Green and D vs D and R
 
ImTheCaptain said:
my point is that no, it's not the same if a left leaning person votes Green rather than R because of the difference in the ideological overlaps between Green and D vs D and R
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So, you are agreeing with me that it makes more sense for a leftist to vote Green, than for a conservative to vote Dem?
 
MHBDemon said:
So, you are agreeing with me that it makes more sense for a leftist to vote Green, than for a conservative to vote Dem?
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No it doesn't and won't justify your vote for Stein being a vote for Trump.

A conservative for a Dem is voting to change the Republican party by taking them out of power. Your voting Green or other is simply throwing away your vote and make Dems need extra votes to negate yours.

You stop trying to rationalize and grow your power.
 
MHBDemon said:
More destructive to who or what?
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More destructive to the nation and to the future of your movement.

You could take over the Democratic Party leadership by delivering votes and support. They already agree with you on many things. They might not even realize it until it's too late for them.

However, if you choose to vote Green or others, they and others will resent you for electing Trumpites. Your votes for Stein, et al, are definitively votes for Trump, his racist policies, his anti-woman and anti-gay policies and his anti-worker policies.

You can candy-coat it all you but this is reality.
 
I agree with RJ. I hate to even propose this because it has the potential to backfire spectacularly (see Tea party) but “new socialists/greens/Uber progressives” should just continue to primary Democrats where it makes sense (not everywhere). Create a big progressive voting bloc under the Democratic tent and influence it internally. You’ll have a much greater chance of your ideas/policies actually influencing legislation and you won’t hand votes to Republicans.

The key with this tactic is to not go all crazy town and get drunk with power like the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus has done. Be open to compromise and don’t try to burn the entire house down because a moderate Democrat from coal country happens to side with the other guys on a few things.
 
What if I simply think it is futile to reform the Democratic Party? As NED seems to believe with the Pubs.
 
MHBDemon said:
What if I simply think it is futile to reform the Democratic Party? As NED seems to believe with the Pubs.
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But my choice is to move from supporting a party in power to supporting one that actually has the ability to take power (at least partially) in 30 days.

Your choice is to move from the party that has the potential to take power to a party that has no potential. And in making that decision, you are strengthening the hand of the one party you oppose even more than Democrats.
 
And I get the desire to vote 3rd party...don’t get me wrong. I’ve been hoping for a strong centrist/independent party but given where we stand today, I’m not risking a continued push towards autocracy because Joe Independent fully aligns with my beliefs.
 
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