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Thursday's Debate: Discussion Thread

Les Grossman said:
I dont understand how anyone can say Biden didnt come off as an asshole. Clearly, Biden's strategy was to go in and be a prick. And, personally, I think it was the right strategy. The constant shit eating grin, the interruptions, the condescending tone...it was all for the people already slobbing on his and Obama's knob. They ate it up and it was something to energize the base after Obama's awful performance. No undecideds are going to be swayed by a VP debate...if they even watched it at all tonight.
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Pretty much agree with this assessment. Dems were very disappointed that Obama didn't (or couldn't) hit back at Romney. They wanted to see some fight and they definitely got it. Biden's "victory" was in energizing the base.
 
I'm just chiming in to say that I flipped over to the debate for about 3 minutes to see these two boobs interrupting and talking over each other with completely contradictory "factual" remarks. That was enough for me, so I went back to watching baseball. Let's hope neither of these two ever become President.
 
For anyone that was trying to watch with a non partisan eye I Think a few things can be agreed upon:

1. Biden controlled the debate and bullied Ryan and the moderator around which was very effective in 'winning' the debate
2. Ryan got caught in a few tough spots, but battled out of them pretty admirably. He always seemed to wiggle out to the next question
3. Both debaters landed some good shots, Biden landed a few more heavy blows, but Ryan stayed in throwing punches to the end
4. Biden's demeanor played very well for the Democratic base but had much less affect, and even some negative affects (I never know how to use effect/affect) on undecided voters. Obviously Pubs thought he was smug and immature.
5. Overall I give the debate to Biden, but I think the margin is almost minimal. Biden made gains in exciting his party while losing a bit of independent steam because of his demeanor. Ryan stayed in the ring with a seasoned veteran who is the sitting VP and has massive amount of debate and political experience.

I think a lot of Pubs are relieved that Ryan didn't wet the bed. As much as I like Ryan, there was a disaster potential to this debate. Biden tried to bully him into making a big mistake, and Ryan never fell for it. As a conservative my favorite point of the debate was when Ryan very calmly told Biden "Joe, I know you have been under a lot of pressure lately, but I think the American people would be much better served if we didn't interrupt each other all the time". Brilliant move of leadership. He didn't put all the blame on Biden (he said 'if we didn't interrupt') but he made it very clear that he was tired of Biden trying to speak all over him and answer his questions.

Biden won the debate, there isn't much 'debate' about that fact. But Ryan didn't lose the debate, and the information coming back from the polls suggests this was not an epic blowout. Biden won by going to the cards. I truly don't believe this debate changes anything; not because the VP debate is meaningless, but simply because there was no game changing event either candidate can build on.

When the president is using his own poor debate performance as an ice breaker on the campaign trail, you know things went bad for him. I Think Ryan and Romney probably left last night's debate feeling pretty pleased with Ryan's performance. It wasn't perfect, but he competed for the full 90 minutes. Biden came in with a strategy, implemented it perfectly and had a great debate. I am just not sure the bully technique is going to sell as well for independents.
 
Umm, Ryan talked about how he still wanted to privatize SS and barely caught himself to say that that's not Romney's position.
 
Eh, Biden "won" in the day after knee-jerk poll. Not that it matters in the slightest.

The problem for the Romney/Ryan campaign is that the fallout from the unexpected "promise everything to everyone" tactic Romney used to beat up on Obama has been called out as misleading - if not openly deceitful - by just about every fact checking group around. Ads are already rolling that show Romney essentially debating himself with his own clips that are in direct opposition. And that's on top of the 47% problem.

Ryan needed to provide accountability and details, instead he added to their "truth deficit" so-to-speak. Whether or not Biden looked like an ass while highlighting that couldn't be more irrelevant.

The bump reminds me of the support for the Iraq war after everyone watched Colin Powell make a bunch of bullshit promises on stage that essentially ended his political career. Then again, at the time it was a winner and it'd be a year or more before it was exposed as a total sham. Maybe the approach wins the election for Romney - I just hope if it does he reverts back to "Mitt Romney the moderate Obamacare supporting governor of Massachusetts" instead of this "I won't raise revenues $1 for $10 in cuts" ideologue he's had to become to get nominated.
 
joe-biden-vp-debate-meme.jpeg




^ Made me think of ELC
 
Didn't catch the debate last night, but after reading this thread, or most of it, no surprise that CNN is calling this one a draw (48 percent for Paul, 44 percent for Biden, 4 percent poll error). Seems like this is just one that everyone thought their own candidate did well.

Which means those claiming one side definitely one this one needs to take off the liberal/conservative-colored glasses.
 
My biggest takeaway was Biden has no interest in being President in 2016 and Ryan has no shot of being President in 2016.
 
GaDeac said:
Didn't catch the debate last night, but after reading this thread, or most of it, no surprise that CNN is calling this one a draw (48 percent for Paul, 44 percent for Biden, 4 percent poll error). Seems like this is just one that everyone thought their own candidate did well.

Which means those claiming one side definitely one this one needs to take off the liberal/conservative-colored glasses.
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I think most people would judge by undecideds which clearly favored Biden. CBS had them at 50% to 31% for Biden.
 
I didn't watch the Vice-Presidential debate last night, because it was the Vice-Presidential debate, but this morning I did see Biden's utter destruction of Ryan on the stimulus funds request. Kill shot.
 
DCDeac said:
I think most people would judge by undecideds which clearly favored Biden. CBS had them at 50% to 31% for Biden.
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A quick fact check shows that this (eta to add: the supposed "undecideds part") is not true. From the CBS story about their poll...

"The "uncommitted voters" who participated in this poll are either undecided or have chosen a candidate but say they could still change their minds. They are less likely than voters overall to identify with either of the two major political parties: 58 percent call themselves independents, 17 percent identify as Republicans, and 25 percent say they are Democrats."

At least CNN has come out and acknowledged that their poll included 8% more Republicans and could have skewed things. CBS is not doing the same.
 
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The clear winning on this debate thread was --------ME - for creating the drinking game that should have gotten several people buzzed.
 
Shooshmoo said:
I didn't watch the Vice-Presidential debate last night, because it was the Vice-Presidential debate, but this morning I did see Biden's utter destruction of Ryan on the stimulus funds request. Kill shot.
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i honestly don't see that as being a big deal. once the stimulus funds were available, why wouldn't he try to get them for his constituents? it's not like the dollars he asked for were not going to get used if he hadn't asked for them.
 
bmoneydeac said:
i honestly don't see that as being a big deal. once the stimulus funds were available, why wouldn't he try to get them for his constituents? it's not like the dollars he asked for were not going to get used if he hadn't asked for them.
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If you are against something on principle, you don't do it.
 
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